Origin of the kampilan?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

A BIT MORE SPECULATION
IN MANY PICTURES OF MORO DATAU YOU SEE ONE OR MORE SWORD BEARERS WHO HAVE A KAMPILIAN THEY ARE NEAR THE DATAU IN ALL THE PICTURES I HAVE SEEN. I SUSPECT THAT IN BATTLE THESE SWORDBEARERS WOULD BE RIGHT BESIDE AND AROUND THE DATU. IN THE PICTURES THERE IS USUALLY THE DATUS FAMILY OR OTHER DATU AND PEOPLE OF IMPORTANCE SO THE SWORDBEARER IS AT A LITTLE DISTANCE.
IN A BATTLE WITH VERY EXPERIENCED FIGHTING MEN WITH ARMOR AND LONG SWORDS SUCH AS MAGELLENS MEN IT WOULD BE SMARTER AND SAFER TO FIGHT THEM WITH SPEARS AND SHIELDS AND NOT TO GET IN TOO CLOSE. WHEN MAGELLAN WAS DOWN AND SEPARATED FROM HIS WARRIORS IT WAS SAFE TO APROACH AND FINISH HIM OFF.
PERHAPS LAPULAPU THEN CALLED HIS SWORDBEARER AND TOOK THE KAMPILIAN TO FINISH HIM OFF. IT MAY SHOW HONOR TO KILL A WORTHY FOE WITH THE KAMPILIAN RATHER THAN JUST TO STICK HIM FULL OF SPEARS OR IT MIGHT BE TO SHOW THE DATU'S POWER TO EXECUTE HIS ENEMY?. IT IS ALSO LIKELY THEY TOOK HIS HEAD SO A KAMPILIAN WOULD ALSO SERVE WELL FOR THAT. IS THERE ANY MENTION OF THEM TAKEING HIS HEAD OR IF MAGELLANS ENTIRE BODY WAS RECOVERED.?

Fair reasoning.
However it seems as the actual manner how Magalhães was finally executed is not yet established. This particular, together with his birth date and place are still an uncertainty. This was still assumed by the most recent author of a supposedly thorough research book on Magalhães biography and the circumnavigation saga, Michel Chandeigne, a French teacher who used to lecture in Lisbon.
Naturally there are versions of his beheading, here and there. For example, a martial arts Brazilian academy narrates that the ten Datus of Borneo, each with a force of a hundred men arrived at the island of Panay in the Visaya region, in the 13th century. Some historians beleive that this is when the old Philipino martial art Kali was born. It is said that Kali is the art of wide blades, an art that deeply influenced Philipino war traditions, being considered by some as the mother of all styles of stick and knife (sword) fighting. This source assumes that Magalhães was decapitated by the Datu Lapu Lapu and that, according to historians, Magalhães beheader was a Kali master.

Fernando

[Spunjer]

Originally Posted by fernando

Fair reasoning.

Naturally there are versions of his beheading, here and there. For example, a martial arts Brazilian academy narrates that the ten Datus of Borneo, each with a force of a hundred men arrived at the island of Panay in the Visaya region, in the 13th century. Some historians beleive that this is when the old Philipino martial art Kali was born. It is said that Kali is the art of wide blades, an art that deeply influenced Philipino war traditions, being considered by some as the mother of all styles of stick and knife (sword) fighting. This source assumes that Magalhães was decapitated by the Datu Lapu Lapu and that, according to historians, Magalhães beheader was a Kali master.

Fernando

sorry fernando, but the legend of the ten datus was just that, a legend. although it has been disproven, it is sad to say that it's still in some of the history books.
here's a nice link regarding that, and the ever persistent art of "kali" (another made up word, lol).

http://cebueskrima.s5.com/index_2.html

from what pigafetta described, magellan was pretty much bum rushed, nothing fancy. i understand there's a lot of romanticism involved to give the art some sort of history, but truth is more important.

[fernando]

Hi Spunjer

Originally Posted by Spunjer

sorry fernando,...

No need to be sorry Iam not a Kali fan ... didn't even know what it was, before having read about it in that website.

Originally Posted by Spunjer

... from what pigafetta described, magellan was pretty much bum rushed, nothing fancy. i understand there's a lot of romanticism involved to give the art some sort of history, ...

Romanticism is a spice found everywhere; Also Pigafetta didn't leave his credits with allien hands:
"fin che lo specchio, il lume, el conforto e la vera guida nostra ammazzarono".

Originally Posted by Spunjer

... but truth is more important ...

Naturally; but who knows the truth ? There is only one version, that of Pigafetta, which may as well be a distorted one. How far was he from Magalhães when they knocked him down; how was his mind clear and how much was he (or not) interested to golden the pill, when he later related what has happened ?
On the other hand, nothing could avoid that Magalhães's agony, or virtual death, was followed by a triumphant decapitation, which was a current fashion. Was Pigafetta still close enough to see it, in case it has happened ?
As i said in my previous posting, even recent scholars who have been gathering all possible documentation, do not consider Magalhães death cause as established; and certainly they are aware of Pigafetta's assumed relate.

Fernando

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by fernando

Also Pigafetta didn't leave his credits with allien hands:
"fin che lo specchio, il lume, el conforto e la vera guida nostra ammazzarono".

"... until they killed our mirror, our light, our comfort, and our true guide."

Well, I still feel like squirming whenever I read that!

I mean how can Pigafetta be so corny or mushy?! On the other hand, that only means that Magalhães was that good.

Originally Posted by fernando

... There is only one version, that of Pigafetta, which may as well be a distorted one.

Well actually, we do have the accounts of Oliveira, the Genoese pilot, et al., all eyewitnesses. I wonder what you meant by that?

But yes, Pigafetta has got the most details, and thus most useful.

On the errors that crept into the narration itself and then into the translations, I think for so long as we are aware of the biases, then we can always make our own adjustments.

For instance, Pigafetta estimated that Lapulapu's men must have numbered about 1,500. Now many have already written that Lapulapu could not have assembled that many a company.

But we can understand that he wouldn't want to put his boss in a bad light, thus the exaggeration.

But we can fry Pigafetta in his own fat to correct the error in his estimate. Like he mentioned that in Cebu the towns and their chiefs were --

Cingapola: the chiefs were Cilaton, Ciguibucan, Cimaninga, Cimaticat, and Cicanbul [and these chiefs must had been all the ones under Humabon?];
Mandani [Mandaue?]: chief was Aponoaan
Lalan: chief was Teten
Lalutan: chief was Japau
Lubucin: chief was Cilumai
Matan [Mactan]: one side was under Zula, then the other portion was under Cilapulapu [Lapulapu].

So let's say Cebu had 11 chiefs representing 11 towns.

Now the Philippines has 80 million people now, and about 2 million of those would be in Metro Cebu (i.e., 2.5% of the total).

The prehispanic Phil. population was about 800,000. So we can suppose that Humabon & company's Cebu would have a population of about 20,000.

Now divide 20,000 by 11 towns and you'll have 1,800 population per town. Half of those would be women. And of the remaining half, the kids and oldies would be say 30% -- so we are down to about 600 able-bodied men who can be the warriors.

You can adjust the assumptions but I think you'll never be able to reasonably come up with Pigafetta's "1,500".

So I guess that's it ... Pigafetta can say one thing, but we can always make our own adjustments!

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by fernando

This source assumes that Magalhães was decapitated by the Datu Lapu Lapu and that ...

Hi Fernando.

One the one hand, that Magalhães was decapitated is a possibility I think.

On the other hand, we also read from Pigafetta that when the Christian king [Humabon] sent word to the Mactan people that if they return the body of Magalhães and the others they will be given as much merchandise as they might wish for, Lapulapu's people said 'no' --

"... but they answered that on no account would they ever give up that man, but they wished to preserve him as a monument of their triumph."

That Lapulapu's men were principled and not materialistic is sure fine by me But my point is that if the bodies were to be made as trophies (and we can see that Lapulapu did a lot of planning in that battle), then I think nobody was decapitated.

As an aside, I think Cebuanos in general go by the "work hard, play hard" rule. Earlier, Pigafetta noted one trait of the Cebuanos of old --

"When our people went on shore by day or by night, they always met with some one who invited them to eat and drink. They only half cook their victuals, and salt them very much, which makes them drink a great deal; and they drink much with reeds, sucking the wine from the vessels. Their repasts always last from five to six hours."

Going back to Magalhães' body, I certainly hope that one day an excavation will yield bodies that will point to Magalhães and company (including those of the 20+ others who were massacred in the delightful dinner).