Indian axe for comments and suggestions

Royston · 5th December 2008, 09:30 AM

Thanks to everyone for their help so far.

I have been searching for more information on the Gods but have become somewhat disillusioned after finding a statement saying that according to Hindu mythology there are 340 million of them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would appear that one of the items the female is carrying is the hour glass shaped drum called a Damaru. This seems to appear with a lot of the Gods. I have a shield that depicts both Kali and Shiva holding these.

Jim,
I had never heard of Gamble's book before. Do you think it is worth having ? I see there is a used copy on Amazon for £90 so it's not cheap.

The term " Temple " axe gets used a lot. What does it actually mean ??

bhushan,
I have been looking at Indian scripts and it looks as though it probably is Devanagari. Thanks for that, now if anyone can actually tell me the language and what it says, I would be most happy

Thanks again

Royston

Jim McDougall · 5th December 2008, 12:49 PM

Hi Royston,
The book by Gamble is an interesting novelty, and far from being useful in any in depth study of these weapons, however, as seen in this case, it does seem to at least give a benchmark in identification. In my opinion, the price you mention far exceeds its usefulness, and the copy I have is from many years ago.

The 'temple' denominator in describing weapons typically suggests that these items are likely either votive or ceremonial holdings that remain in the temple for use in various rituals. Thier profuse decoration and often elaborate elemental motif preclude thier effective use in the traditional warfare sense, and in many respects these weapons represents metaphoric or symbolic function. Probably one of the best books to own concerning not only these aspects of weaponry, but Hindu weapons in particular is Robert Elgood's "Hindu Arms and Ritual", which I believe parallels the price range you mentioned and is a monumental resource .

The 'temple' term in my opinion specifies use as noted, and sometimes these weapons are carried in processions in the sense of bearing swords etc.
The weapons specified as sacrificial, while often also highly decorated but in motif rather than elaborate dimensionally applied features, are of course intended for use, such as the ram dao of Nepal, tulwar hilted koras from Bengal and others.

The devanagari script, as Bhushan can probably better describe, in my understanding is essentially a primary form which often has local variation in characters incorporated, much like dialect in spoken language. I would also like to know if that perception is correct, as I am no linguist but often see this term used describing inscriptions on Indian weapons. I believe this is why trying to match the characters to the basic reference to devanagari alphabet is compelling, but the matches are not exact.

All best regards,
Jim

bhushan_lawate · 5th December 2008, 01:45 PM

Hi all,

The figures on this ceremonial/temple axe bear the hour glass shaped "Damaru" which is a percussion instrument belonging to the deities of the "Shiva Family"
It is interesting to note that this is a instrument which finds vast usage in Shiva Temples even to date and is one carried by "Shiva" always. It is a instrument which found useage during warfares as well.

They Bull and the "Bhairavi"(????) are also seen carrying a "mace" again common to deities in the Shiva Family. Similar maces can be seen in body building "akhadas" or country gyms in India. (Especially towards the North)

Coming to the script and the language; the script is Devanagari for sure and the language seems like Hindi or Sanskrit. Mostly looks like proper nouns pronouncing name(s) of owner???????

I'll try to figure out if I can get the exact meaning of the letters there. As Jim has rightly pointed out the script is written in different forms in different provinces and thus leads to difficulty in deciphering at times.

Most old temples in India or temples which follow legacies and rituals strictly have a lot of weapons for ritual and ceremonial use.

The ritual weapons are mostly those which are used actively (E.g For sacrifice of Buffaloes, Sheep etc) This is prevelant on a large scale even to date.

Ceremonial weapons are those which are richly decorated and elaborate in character and find useage in ceremonial processions (these weapons are carried by designated personnel) or are kept besides the deity etc.

In fact many deities have weapons kept by their side always.

We have to look at temple/ceremonial weapons keeping all the above things in mind.
I've personally seen a lot of such ritual and ceremonial weapons in a lot of temples in India.

Regards,
Bhushan

5th December 2008, 09:30 AM	#1
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	More questions Thanks to everyone for their help so far. I have been searching for more information on the Gods but have become somewhat disillusioned after finding a statement saying that according to Hindu mythology there are 340 million of them !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would appear that one of the items the female is carrying is the hour glass shaped drum called a Damaru. This seems to appear with a lot of the Gods. I have a shield that depicts both Kali and Shiva holding these. Jim, I had never heard of Gamble's book before. Do you think it is worth having ? I see there is a used copy on Amazon for £90 so it's not cheap. The term " Temple " axe gets used a lot. What does it actually mean ?? bhushan, I have been looking at Indian scripts and it looks as though it probably is Devanagari. Thanks for that, now if anyone can actually tell me the language and what it says, I would be most happy Thanks again Royston Attached Images

5th December 2008, 12:49 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Royston, The book by Gamble is an interesting novelty, and far from being useful in any in depth study of these weapons, however, as seen in this case, it does seem to at least give a benchmark in identification. In my opinion, the price you mention far exceeds its usefulness, and the copy I have is from many years ago. The 'temple' denominator in describing weapons typically suggests that these items are likely either votive or ceremonial holdings that remain in the temple for use in various rituals. Thier profuse decoration and often elaborate elemental motif preclude thier effective use in the traditional warfare sense, and in many respects these weapons represents metaphoric or symbolic function. Probably one of the best books to own concerning not only these aspects of weaponry, but Hindu weapons in particular is Robert Elgood's "Hindu Arms and Ritual", which I believe parallels the price range you mentioned and is a monumental resource . The 'temple' term in my opinion specifies use as noted, and sometimes these weapons are carried in processions in the sense of bearing swords etc. The weapons specified as sacrificial, while often also highly decorated but in motif rather than elaborate dimensionally applied features, are of course intended for use, such as the ram dao of Nepal, tulwar hilted koras from Bengal and others. The devanagari script, as Bhushan can probably better describe, in my understanding is essentially a primary form which often has local variation in characters incorporated, much like dialect in spoken language. I would also like to know if that perception is correct, as I am no linguist but often see this term used describing inscriptions on Indian weapons. I believe this is why trying to match the characters to the basic reference to devanagari alphabet is compelling, but the matches are not exact. All best regards, Jim

5th December 2008, 01:45 PM	#3
bhushan_lawate Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: India Posts: 77	Hi all, The figures on this ceremonial/temple axe bear the hour glass shaped "Damaru" which is a percussion instrument belonging to the deities of the "Shiva Family" It is interesting to note that this is a instrument which finds vast usage in Shiva Temples even to date and is one carried by "Shiva" always. It is a instrument which found useage during warfares as well. They Bull and the "Bhairavi"(????) are also seen carrying a "mace" again common to deities in the Shiva Family. Similar maces can be seen in body building "akhadas" or country gyms in India. (Especially towards the North) Coming to the script and the language; the script is Devanagari for sure and the language seems like Hindi or Sanskrit. Mostly looks like proper nouns pronouncing name(s) of owner??????? I'll try to figure out if I can get the exact meaning of the letters there. As Jim has rightly pointed out the script is written in different forms in different provinces and thus leads to difficulty in deciphering at times. Most old temples in India or temples which follow legacies and rituals strictly have a lot of weapons for ritual and ceremonial use. The ritual weapons are mostly those which are used actively (E.g For sacrifice of Buffaloes, Sheep etc) This is prevelant on a large scale even to date. Ceremonial weapons are those which are richly decorated and elaborate in character and find useage in ceremonial processions (these weapons are carried by designated personnel) or are kept besides the deity etc. In fact many deities have weapons kept by their side always. We have to look at temple/ceremonial weapons keeping all the above things in mind. I've personally seen a lot of such ritual and ceremonial weapons in a lot of temples in India. Regards, Bhushan