19th century fencing foils

[katana]

Originally Posted by William V.

HEUREKA! Finally at least a small path to follow to the light of knowledge

@katana:
The blade of your foil was most probably forged by a company named Cooper-Goodman. They produced the Chassepot bayonet (which was used between 1866-1874 by France but found many other countries copying it)...

Check out this link (you can see the similar marking clearly):

http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/1866_chassepot.htm

This information might give a rough idea when the foil might be produced. If one takes into account that the firm might not be active for a long time, and might not have much experience with fencing weapons (referring to the strange POB), this could indicate that the foil may be quite rare....

So far for now.

I hope someone can carry on the torch and finds more information on the firm itself.


William

Well done and thank you William ,
hopefully with this new 'lead' I can get find more information. Nice epee (that you posted) certainly has a more business-like blade. Thank you to you and those whom commented on the foil I posted.

Kind Regards David

[William V.]

A pleasure
but could you please post a picture of the tip?
I'm interested how it was shaped...

William

[katana]

Hi William,
it seems "Cooper and Goodman" made firearms..and seem to have been based in Birmingham..found this...

"......Mr. Goodman’s connection with the gun trade was of long standing. In 1838, when in the employ of the Scholefields, he entered into partnership with Mr. J.R. Cooper, and subsequently with that gentleman’s brother, Mr. Charles Cooper, the business being carried on at first under the name of J.R. Cooper and Co., and afterwards under that of Cooper and Goodman, until 1888....."

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:Y...lnk&cd=1&gl=uk

So on that basis the blade was presumably manufactured , at the latest 1888

Here on this page , Lot 869
http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:b...lnk&cd=2&gl=uk
"An UNUSUAL .500 Cal. double barrelled Medium Game Rifle by Cooper and Goodman"

and half way down on this page...
http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:n...lnk&cd=1&gl=uk

"A fine and rare 1856 Pattern rifled service pistol, 25.5cm sighted barrel fitted with rear leaf sights, border engraved lock stamped "1858" over "TOWER" and with a Crown over "VR" at the tail, full stock stamped "WD" and "COOPER & GOODMAN",

After hours of searching ....I'm all googled out Perhaps it is rare ...hopefully one of the 'firearm boys' may have further information on Cooper and Goodman......please

William will post a picture of the 'point' soon

Kind regards David

[William V.]

Bad news...

I got in touch with a fellow blade collector who said, that the information on the "crown above c.g" needs to be updated...
The crown is not in style of the era for the UK, additionally it is a fact that Cooper and Goodman always marked without a crown. He suspects the marking to have belgian origins.

Sorry, to says so: but we have to start anew....

William

[katana]

Hi William,
thanks for letting me know ....never mind, I am sure I will discover the maker at a later date. I have even considered whether the blade may be a re-worked swordstick

Here are the pictures of the point.(both magnified)

Best Regards David

.

[William V.]

Thanks for the pictures,
you are right, the tip looks quite original...

I may have another lead on the marking

Compare the crown on the following marking with your foil.
The blade belongs to a sword produced in 1875 by the Fabrica Nacional de Toledo in Spain.

All the best

William

[katana]

Hi William,
thanks for your continuing input . Going back to the Chassepot bayonet marking ...according to the 'caption' the markings of crown and C.G were verified by Anthony Carter. A quick search shows that he is a respected writer on bayonets ......

http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:y...lnk&cd=1&gl=uk

Perhaps he is mis-informed ....or he knows something we don't

However, it was also stated that a number of Chassepots were manufactured in Belgium ......who would have thought a clearly marked blade could be so difficult to identify

Originally Posted by William V.

Thanks for the pictures,
you are right, the tip looks quite original...
William

I am glad it is not just 'wishful thinking' (on my part) that the point may be original to the piece

Regards David