19th century fencing foils

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by broadaxe

Hungarians are very famous as fencers, espacialy with epee.
Here are some pics, feel free to post questions, I hope I can answer all

Hi,

Absolutely fantastic - Thank you for sharing them.


Some years ago, I sa a similar collection (in variety and scope) in Buenos Aires. Walked out with a very light wallet and a couple of swords.

Cheers
Chris

[fernando]

Beautyful pieces you show there, Broadaxe. Do they belong to you ? What a fascinating colection .
If you people don't mind, let me take the opportunity to have in this thread some authorities in this area, and ask for coments on one "and half" foils i have; unfortunately one of them has a blade broken by its half length.
The entire one has a 87 cms blade and still keeps a very thin brass wire wraped around the leather grip. I never knew what the term BEDEL means.
All the marks on the blade are well visible. There is also the figure 5 engraved; i wonder if that represents the size of the sword.
The other example has a completely identical grip, only missing the wraping wire. The blade has only one mark, ASOLINGEN; i wonder what the letter "A" added to the word Solingen means.
Coments on these pieces would be much welcome, namely on their provenance and possible age.
Fernando

[broadaxe]

Hi Fernando. All the photos were taken at the private museum of Maitre Jaque Castanet in France. For me this is just a side field of interest. The number 5 stands for length of the blade, which is the adult standard. For youth it used to be #3, and there was a rare longer blade, #7. I don't remember the exact measures. The style of your hilt can be dated to the mid-19th century; please check if the fittings are nickel-plated steel thus indicate later age.

[Jim McDougall]

WOW! Broadaxe.....now THATS what I'm talkin' about!!!
Thank you so much for posting these, and its wonderful to see such a grouping of fencing swords and masks.

Pretty much speechless at this point I'll think of something to say, I think!

All the very best,
Jim

[celtan]

In Spain, a bedel is someone in charge of a building, and sometimes the term is used for minor administrative hotel employees.

In this case though, I believe its the name of the store that sold the epees. Aciers Bedel, or Steels Bedel.

The A before Solingen could likewise refer to Aceros or Acieres Solingen.

Best

M

Originally Posted by
The entire one has a 87 cms blade and still keeps a very thin brass wire wraped around the leather grip. I never knew what the term BEDEL means.
All the marks on the blade are well visible. There is also the figure [b

5 [/b] engraved; i wonder if that represents the size of the sword.
The other example has a completely identical grip, only missing the wraping wire. The blade has only one mark, ASOLINGEN; i wonder what the letter "A" added to the word Solingen means.

[William V.]

Hello @ all

Sorry for not posting earlier... my job got the better of me

@Fernando:
The 5 indicates indeed the lenght of the weapon (normally "5" was 88 cm), the blade was forged in Solingen most probably by the Weyersberg company (before 1883). I suppose that the "Bedel" is the seller of the weapon and the word (as already said) "acier" meaning "steel", is a kind of proofmark that the metal is truly steel. The fact that "acier" is french for "steel" implies that Bedel is a french distributor (by chance I stumbled across 2 other weapons located in France with the same marking, which speaks for this hypothesis).
The "VjB" is probably the full name of the seller, the last letter standing for "Bedel".
The only thing irritating me is the strange king's head, he looks quite different to the original:
http://www.wkc-solingen.de/ueberuns/index.html

Do you mind posting a high-resolution picture of the head only?
Another interesting point is the question why a french distributor should sell german blades? They had Klingenthal and Chatterault around the corner

Regarding the other weapon:
Are there any other markings on the blade except the "ASolingen"?
The way I see it the "A" is the french for "at" Solingen. Indicating that the blade was forged at Solingen. This would show that the blade was for the foreign market.

@Broadaxe:

WOW
I knew the page of Mr Castanet but am truly amazed by the material he has there. Perhaps I should plan a short trip to Paris
Really nice pictures.

So far and all the best

William

[broadaxe]

The place of Mr. Castanet is not actualy in Paris but is very easy to get, about 20 minutes to the south riding the RER train. One should call for appointment.
As there is interest here are some more pics.

[Jim McDougall]

These are absolutely wonderful photos Broadaxe, and its like taking a trip to this completely captivating shop! It is the kind of magical place someone could spend many hours in wandering through, and admiring all the treasures. It reminds me of the antique weapons stores which existed once upon a time (before ebay) and as a youngster, my awe as I wandered through them.
* interesting old Masonic sword there with the skull and crossbones, and in seeing that with my younger eyes, I would have imagined it as a pirate captains trusty sword

Thank you William and Manuel for the input describing these markings and notes on the pieces shown.......I feel another notebook coming on !!! I have often thought of putting together information on fencing weapons, and here we have a great start.

Thank you guys!!!!

All the best,
Jim

[fernando]

Thanks a lot for your input, Broadaxe, Manolo and William.
Yes William, i see your point about these foils having been imported from Germany to France, when the late had their own production. Mybe this was due to the ever famous Sollingen prestige?
By the way, despite being almost invisible in the pictures,k the letter S can be discerned inside the central section of the decoration efects; maybe this stands for Solingen?
You are right in that the King's head is rather different than the traditional one from Weyersberg. The Monarch in my example has a moustache and a beard ... quite intriguing. Would there be another German (or not) sword maker with a King's head mark ? There must be an explanation for this.

Concerning the other example i have posted, the only mark is indeed ASOLINGEN. I stress that the grip is precisely the same model, whereas the blade is slightly thinner.
Both these examples were acquired in the same place and at the same moment (in Portugal); so i would bet they surely belonged to the same owner.
Fernando