A Plastic Keris? for comment.

[Bill]

The blade reminds me of the "Moro" kris with the deer antler hilt I have posted in the past. Since I think that sword comes from Sulawesi, I'll vote Sulawesi, just my guess. Have to think Sulawesi played a important roll in keris development, but doesn't seem like much knowledge remains to back that up.

[nechesh]

Empu Kumis asks: "...are they made for faking ore just using new materials." My guess is neither. I think they are made to dress souvenir keris and are originally being marketed as such. The problem arises when someone places an old 18th or 19th century keris into one of these dresses. Wayne has wondered why someone would do this. Because it is a very cheap alternative to using traditional materials. Wayne, there is no extra work involved. These outfits are no doubt mass produced by the hundreds if not thousands. It is much easier and cheaper than commissioning a new wood, horn or ivory one or even refitting an old used one. As for how the keris ended up in that condition, well, frankly, i have seen much worse. As the importance of the keris as a cultural icon rapidly decreases, less and less care is taken for these items. People stop feeding them and oiling them, stashed away in the bottom of a trunk somewhere. It gets past on to someone who doesn't care for such things or thinks they are bad luck and sells them for a bit of cash. Not a real likely scenerio for a royal court piece, but it is probably a very likely fate for many commomer pieces.
I also think your blade has some age and think it may actually be Sumatran work (there Rick, stuck my neck out ) and is probably early 19thC. Though i think a good etch and stain will undoubtable improve this blade it still won't make it a high end item. The seller knew this, so why spend money on real dress if he can make better money sticking it in plastic and hoping to fool someone like your friend?

[BSMStar]

Originally Posted by nechesh

Wayne, there is no extra work involved. These outfits are no doubt mass produced by the hundreds if not thousands. It is much easier and cheaper than commissioning a new wood, horn or ivory one or even refitting an old used one.

I also think your blade has some age and think it may actually be Sumatran work (there Rick, stuck my neck out ) and is probably early 19thC.

Hi nechesh,

If they are mass producing these (which makes sense, to recoup the cost of the molds, etc...) then this must be one of the first to hit the market. I have see fake keris in plastic dress sold with a Plaque before, this is the first keris only I have seen (with a real blade). Its seems the basic response has been to this thread, there haven't been very many floating around... I guess we need to get ready for the siege.

It seems to me a twist of irony (and more than random chance) to place a Sumatran keris in a plastic Sumatran dress (unless an inventory of different dress are keep - needing a higher investment... wow, are we going to see a lot of these things if that is the case). I think it would take some knowledge on the part of the supplier to pull that off (verses dumb luck). If one were to mass produce Sumatran dress and use Sumatran keris (assuming that is the only dress made)... the source would be Sumatran??? Or am I connecting too many dots. If we see Javanese keris in Javanese plastic dress... then, where will it stop.

Early 19c... Cool! I know there are good keris and not so good keris... but as Rick pointed out in another thread, " as cultural artifacts they are due a certain amount of respect." I may also add that they are history, little pieces of "frozen time" that you can hold in you hand and look upon with a sense of wonder.. thinking about who made them, how they were made, why were they made and for whom, what did it mean or represent... what has it witnessed over the pass two hundred or so years, the people that have coming in contact with it... the good, the bad and all that is in-between. This is what collecting is all about, other than having a cool looking antique hanging on the wall (yea, that's nice too).

Now if I could only teach the keris to speak (or that I learn to listen).

[nechesh]

Wayne, if you want to hear the keris speak, try putting it under your pillow at night.
As i mentioned before, we have seen these composite sheath and hilts before and had a thread about them. I believe that originally they are being presented with newly made keris as tourist items. I don't believe the original intention of this dress was to deceive or hold your 19thC blade. The ones i have seen previously were also Sumatran dress and it may very well be a Sumatran product. Of course, the Chinese are very good at using this composite stuff and the work might be imported for an Indonesian market.
It seems neither ironic nor by chance that someone would place an old Sumatran blade in this dress if their intention was to fool an unwary buyer. As for the "good blade"/"bad blade" issue, i couldn't agree with you more. Very few of us have either the money or opportunity to collect really high end pieces. And while the keris culture was certainly dictated from the top of the hierachal food chain (i.e.the kraton) it certain permeated the entire culture, from the poorest farmer to the highest courtesan. All keris are worthy in my book, even the simplest of village pieces.They are all cultural artifacts with a history and a story. Of course, that doesn't mean i don't try to collect well made keris, but if a piece appeals to me the quality might at times be secondary.

[BSMStar]

Hi nechesh,

I hope what I said was not offensive (my apologies)... I did not mean to question you. And my second two paragraphs were not intended to be directed toward you. Sometimes I ramble on too much.

I am only curious about the origin of these keris, (my first thought was that they may be coming from China or else were too). It will be interesting to see what, and how many of these plastic pieces "crop" up.

I fully agree with you nechesh. I collect those keris that "sing" or "speak" to me in some deep and meaningful way (and only one of them has been a heirloom quality keris). I have "slept" with each keris that I own (except this one, I will when it is restored)... maybe... just maybe, the experiences we have all had would make an interesting thread in itself? Especially if someone knowledgeable can interpret or "explain" some of the experiences that we have had (I would like to know more about the meaning of some of mine).

[nechesh]

Really no offense taken at all Wayne.