XXL size

fearn · 13th April 2005, 02:24 AM

Then there are the old bronze swords. I'm trying to remember where I read it (was it Ewart Oakeshotte's book?), but those old blades had ridiculously short hilts by modern standards. This was attributed (as we do here) to the Bronze Age greeks having tiny hands. Oakeshotte (assuming he wrote it) actually tried handling an accurate reconstruction, and found something very simple: the hilt was held by the last three fingers, while the thumb and forefinger fit very nicely on that round base of the leaf-shaped blade. When held that way, the old swords were actually very easy to use.

Since I just got hold of Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika, I'm looking at pictures of dozens of short swords with ridiculously short handles--as Tom mentions above. No one can hold a sword with a three inch handle, unless theyu're grabbing the base of the blade as well. In these cases, I suspect they were. I'd ask those of you with the African swords to try it out and see, personally. I suspect that's also what's going on with that Malabar rapier.

As for the problem of getting your finger lopped off if it's looped around the hilt, I'd say--yep, it's possible, but that doesn't stop most people who use sais from doing that very thing. Something to think about.

Fearn

Jens Nordlunde · 13th April 2005, 04:53 PM

[QUOTE=fearn]
As for the problem of getting your finger lopped off if it's looped around the hilt, I'd say--yep, it's possible, but that doesn't stop most people who use sais from doing that very thing. Something to think about.

Fearn, have you ever seen a miniature where an Indian sword fighter has his index finger curled around the quillon?
Besides, I don't know what the word 'sais' means

.

Jens

fearn · 13th April 2005, 06:40 PM

Hi Jens,

Sais is the plural of sai, the common weapon from Okinawa, China, and Indonesia (aka tjabang, cabang, etc)

I'll admit that I haven't paid a lot of attention to Indian blades, so I'm not sure about people looping their fingers around quillons. However, it's an old tradition with rapiers and similar blades (especially where the elaborated hilts give the hand more protection), and I suspect that similar things happen on many other knives, especially those African blades with the short handles and large pommels.

As another, non-military example, I usually hold my favorite Chinese cleaver with two fingers pinching the blade--that's how it is supposed to be used.

Fearn

ariel · 13th April 2005, 08:07 PM

I guess the quillon-curling techniche may have a ring of truth when one remembers Polish-Hungarian swords with thumb rings.Same idea of extending the leverage on the handle by expanding the grip outside the protected area.
The difference, of course, many an Indian could not pick his nose after his very first battle....

13th April 2005, 04:53 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	[QUOTE=fearn] As for the problem of getting your finger lopped off if it's looped around the hilt, I'd say--yep, it's possible, but that doesn't stop most people who use sais from doing that very thing. Something to think about. Fearn, have you ever seen a miniature where an Indian sword fighter has his index finger curled around the quillon? Besides, I don't know what the word 'sais' means. Jens

13th April 2005, 02:24 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Then there are the old bronze swords. I'm trying to remember where I read it (was it Ewart Oakeshotte's book?), but those old blades had ridiculously short hilts by modern standards. This was attributed (as we do here) to the Bronze Age greeks having tiny hands. Oakeshotte (assuming he wrote it) actually tried handling an accurate reconstruction, and found something very simple: the hilt was held by the last three fingers, while the thumb and forefinger fit very nicely on that round base of the leaf-shaped blade. When held that way, the old swords were actually very easy to use. Since I just got hold of Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika, I'm looking at pictures of dozens of short swords with ridiculously short handles--as Tom mentions above. No one can hold a sword with a three inch handle, unless theyu're grabbing the base of the blade as well. In these cases, I suspect they were. I'd ask those of you with the African swords to try it out and see, personally. I suspect that's also what's going on with that Malabar rapier. As for the problem of getting your finger lopped off if it's looped around the hilt, I'd say--yep, it's possible, but that doesn't stop most people who use sais from doing that very thing. Something to think about. Fearn

13th April 2005, 06:40 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Jens, Sais is the plural of sai, the common weapon from Okinawa, China, and Indonesia (aka tjabang, cabang, etc) I'll admit that I haven't paid a lot of attention to Indian blades, so I'm not sure about people looping their fingers around quillons. However, it's an old tradition with rapiers and similar blades (especially where the elaborated hilts give the hand more protection), and I suspect that similar things happen on many other knives, especially those African blades with the short handles and large pommels. As another, non-military example, I usually hold my favorite Chinese cleaver with two fingers pinching the blade--that's how it is supposed to be used. Fearn

13th April 2005, 08:07 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I guess the quillon-curling techniche may have a ring of truth when one remembers Polish-Hungarian swords with thumb rings.Same idea of extending the leverage on the handle by expanding the grip outside the protected area. The difference, of course, many an Indian could not pick his nose after his very first battle....