A Plastic Keris? for comment.

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 01:37 AM

The back detail is terrible (obviously a casting)! Compare it to the first picture at the top of the page.

Alam Shah · 13th April 2005, 02:01 AM

As for the plastic sheath and hilt. It's hard to tell from these photos.
At first glance, looks pretty real. Only under close scrutiny can you spot it and if the picture is sharp enough.

I guess in future bidders should request the seller for the materials used for the
sheath and hilts.?

What will they think of next? "Maintenance free blades" = Plastic blades.

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

What will they think of next? "Maintenance free blades" = Plastic blades.

With a flip of the wrist, you have a Balinese keris

empu kumis · 13th April 2005, 08:55 AM

Hello Kerislovers,

since many years I follow the footsteps of faked and new kerisses but this is an most interesting handle, wrangka and pendok. The question is, are they made for faking ore just using new materials. The artistic quality seems to me not so bad exept the pendok and mendak. The wrangka has an form almost like the one in:

Sharum Bin Yub B.A.
Senjata 2 Pesaka Melayu, Keris dan Senjata 2 Pendek 1967 page 45

The blade may be even older then 19 cent. but age does not make good quality.

In general plastik in Indonesia for handles I have seen the first times in the late 1980ties. As BSMStar wrote about the bubbles are the traitors.

This handle I have found in 1989 in Solo. The black lines indicate the positions of several bubbles. The close up shows better.

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by empu kumis

The blade may be even older then 19 cent. but age does not make good quality.

Hi empu kumis,

Thanks for the feedback. The age of the keris is the area I a weak in... the peski tapers to almost a point from wear, and the wear on the blade (from etching?) lead me to believe this is an older keris. I just not familiar with the dapurs to venture that it is 18c or 17c. It would be interesting to know.

It would also be interesting to know why a keris like this would end up in this condition and in plastic dress. On line auctions prove there is a market for the "low end" keris... why put it in plastic (seems like more work to me than its worth).

Rick · 13th April 2005, 03:06 PM

I think when we move to casting ukirans and scabbards we have lost something essential to the whole ideal of the keris .
Any of those parts could have been made in the U.S. or any other country for that matter . To me an important part of the keris is the HAND workmanship that goes into the ukiran and dress . If we start to accept plastic copies we show no respect for the artisans who labor to make these elements by hand ; therefore an integral part of the keris making process has been lost .
The whole idea is to keep the carver's art alive and well .

Now about the blade ; I have stuck my neck out about possible origins .
Who's next ?

Bill · 13th April 2005, 04:31 PM

The blade reminds me of the "Moro" kris with the deer antler hilt I have posted in the past. Since I think that sword comes from Sulawesi, I'll vote Sulawesi, just my guess. Have to think Sulawesi played a important roll in keris development, but doesn't seem like much knowledge remains to back that up.

13th April 2005, 01:37 AM	#1
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	The back detail is terrible (obviously a casting)! Compare it to the first picture at the top of the page. Attached Images

13th April 2005, 08:55 AM	#4
empu kumis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 17	Hello Kerislovers, since many years I follow the footsteps of faked and new kerisses but this is an most interesting handle, wrangka and pendok. The question is, are they made for faking ore just using new materials. The artistic quality seems to me not so bad exept the pendok and mendak. The wrangka has an form almost like the one in: Sharum Bin Yub B.A. Senjata 2 Pesaka Melayu, Keris dan Senjata 2 Pendek 1967 page 45 The blade may be even older then 19 cent. but age does not make good quality. In general plastik in Indonesia for handles I have seen the first times in the late 1980ties. As BSMStar wrote about the bubbles are the traitors. This handle I have found in 1989 in Solo. The black lines indicate the positions of several bubbles. The close up shows better. Attached Images

13th April 2005, 02:01 AM	#2
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	As for the plastic sheath and hilt. It's hard to tell from these photos. At first glance, looks pretty real. Only under close scrutiny can you spot it and if the picture is sharp enough. I guess in future bidders should request the seller for the materials used for the sheath and hilts.? What will they think of next? "Maintenance free blades" = Plastic blades.

13th April 2005, 03:06 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I think when we move to casting ukirans and scabbards we have lost something essential to the whole ideal of the keris . Any of those parts could have been made in the U.S. or any other country for that matter . To me an important part of the keris is the HAND workmanship that goes into the ukiran and dress . If we start to accept plastic copies we show no respect for the artisans who labor to make these elements by hand ; therefore an integral part of the keris making process has been lost . The whole idea is to keep the carver's art alive and well . Now about the blade ; I have stuck my neck out about possible origins . Who's next ?

13th April 2005, 04:31 PM	#7
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	The blade reminds me of the "Moro" kris with the deer antler hilt I have posted in the past. Since I think that sword comes from Sulawesi, I'll vote Sulawesi, just my guess. Have to think Sulawesi played a important roll in keris development, but doesn't seem like much knowledge remains to back that up.