Long Kilich

erlikhan · 12th April 2005, 05:59 PM

hi Tim. I checked it after your reply, and am happy to see the silver beneath, when I scratched the yellows on the cross guard. It is plated silver, but the gold is perhaps a low grade, to obtain the classical brass colour or kilich guards? And the scabbard is silver for sure, as it has tughra, and it has yellow remnants in the places of lower height,holes, where it has avoided rubbing and erosion, and the upper parts have no yellow but all silver.
regards

Battara · 12th April 2005, 07:51 PM

Based on the pictures, I have to agree with Tim. Gold does not oxidize, even low grade gold allow (only ever so slightly). What I see is typical of brass. The best way is to go to a jeweler and test the metal on the inside of the scabbard and guard. That way one can determine white metal/white brass from silver.

What is also possible is that the yellowish parts are a type of tarnish on the silver. This would mean age, chemical exposure, and a different alloy mixed in with the silver. This may account for the color on top of the silver even though it is not the color of gold.

erlikhan · 12th April 2005, 08:27 PM

The issue got interesting. I havent heard about the white brass. If the scabbard was white metal, the art on both sides of the scabbard would be impossible to be created. Hardness of that material doesnt let such works and nobody would struck tughra emblem onto white metal to test and approve its grade. It has several stamps on every single piece. Here are the results of my test variations..All suggestions are welcome.
Yellowish only exist in some lower parts especially to edge of both sides,and when stratched, silver color appears below,just like the hand guard (the yellow on scabbard doesnt seem to have any oxidation unlike guard). When the silver color part is stratched, no difference appears. It continues the same color, just the material gets scratched, nothing else. When black oxidation on the silver is scratched, silver colour below.
About the guard, I know gold doesnt oxidate, but then what is it? It is a yellow homogenous layer over silver color for sure, over silver or perhaps white metal as you say. Is there anything like brass or another yellow stuff plating application known??

Tim Simmons · 12th April 2005, 08:53 PM

Hello erilkhan,That is a very fine blade but I think the metals are base metals except for the plating.I think you may be looking at various mixtures of Tin and Copper which can produce a range of colours,white to yellow of a hardness suitable for sword furniture.I have post a picture of white metal modern Tuereg bangles that look like silver.Tim

erlikhan · 12th April 2005, 09:26 PM

Tim, tin-copper means bronze, and I dont think any mixture of them would be silver color.There should be some significant degree of brownish cause copper softens and makes it workable. Pure tin could be silver white perhaps, but tin is very hard and any kind of decorative arts impossible. White metal on guard or the bracelets on the picture is of course possible, but on this scabbard with this kind of art,not.. At least as far as -I think that-I know . But who knows? Thanks for your comments. The healthiest way will be to take it to a silversmith as far as I see after your comments. Better not to sleep than to see nightmares. If not silver, it means false tughra strucking and a cheating. I will take it back to the seller in such a case. it would not be so big problem. I will share the results with you.
regards

12th April 2005, 08:27 PM	#3
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	The issue got interesting. I havent heard about the white brass. If the scabbard was white metal, the art on both sides of the scabbard would be impossible to be created. Hardness of that material doesnt let such works and nobody would struck tughra emblem onto white metal to test and approve its grade. It has several stamps on every single piece. Here are the results of my test variations..All suggestions are welcome. Yellowish only exist in some lower parts especially to edge of both sides,and when stratched, silver color appears below,just like the hand guard (the yellow on scabbard doesnt seem to have any oxidation unlike guard). When the silver color part is stratched, no difference appears. It continues the same color, just the material gets scratched, nothing else. When black oxidation on the silver is scratched, silver colour below. About the guard, I know gold doesnt oxidate, but then what is it? It is a yellow homogenous layer over silver color for sure, over silver or perhaps white metal as you say. Is there anything like brass or another yellow stuff plating application known?? Last edited by erlikhan; 12th April 2005 at 08:53 PM.

12th April 2005, 08:53 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,902	Hello erilkhan,That is a very fine blade but I think the metals are base metals except for the plating.I think you may be looking at various mixtures of Tin and Copper which can produce a range of colours,white to yellow of a hardness suitable for sword furniture.I have post a picture of white metal modern Tuereg bangles that look like silver.Tim Attached Images

12th April 2005, 05:59 PM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	hi Tim. I checked it after your reply, and am happy to see the silver beneath, when I scratched the yellows on the cross guard. It is plated silver, but the gold is perhaps a low grade, to obtain the classical brass colour or kilich guards? And the scabbard is silver for sure, as it has tughra, and it has yellow remnants in the places of lower height,holes, where it has avoided rubbing and erosion, and the upper parts have no yellow but all silver. regards

12th April 2005, 07:51 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,339	Based on the pictures, I have to agree with Tim. Gold does not oxidize, even low grade gold allow (only ever so slightly). What I see is typical of brass. The best way is to go to a jeweler and test the metal on the inside of the scabbard and guard. That way one can determine white metal/white brass from silver. What is also possible is that the yellowish parts are a type of tarnish on the silver. This would mean age, chemical exposure, and a different alloy mixed in with the silver. This may account for the color on top of the silver even though it is not the color of gold.

12th April 2005, 09:26 PM	#5
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Tim, tin-copper means bronze, and I dont think any mixture of them would be silver color.There should be some significant degree of brownish cause copper softens and makes it workable. Pure tin could be silver white perhaps, but tin is very hard and any kind of decorative arts impossible. White metal on guard or the bracelets on the picture is of course possible, but on this scabbard with this kind of art,not.. At least as far as -I think that-I know . But who knows? Thanks for your comments. The healthiest way will be to take it to a silversmith as far as I see after your comments. Better not to sleep than to see nightmares. If not silver, it means false tughra strucking and a cheating. I will take it back to the seller in such a case. it would not be so big problem. I will share the results with you. regards