A Plastic Keris? for comment.

nechesh · 12th April 2005, 02:33 PM

Wow, this is kinda scary stuff. Actually, we have seen this composite material used before. I believe we had a thread on a similar piece a while back. This does create all kinds of problems for eBay buyers. This would be hard stuff to catch unless the photos were really good (are they ever?) and Rahman is right to point out that if there is one like this there are no doubt many. Geez, even the pendok is plastic, eh? Makes buying from a reputable dealer even more attractive.

Bill · 12th April 2005, 04:46 PM

scary, to my bad judgement, it looks pretty good. i would also think there must be a lot more of them out there

nechesh · 12th April 2005, 05:43 PM

Not so much bad judgement Bill. This composite stuff DOES look good. I've been buying Asian statues made of this stuff for some time just because they look so good and are so cheap. But i'm sure i don't want my keris dress made out of it. Of course, as we have discussed before, if the item is listed correctly with full disclosure, there is no forgery. This dress is obviously made for the tourist market. My fear is that we will start seeing more of these being sold as horn or other natural materials.Put a mediocre old blade in that dress and it can be even harder to tell. Buyer beware.

BSMStar · 12th April 2005, 06:29 PM

As I have said in another thread, a very dear friend purchased this keris as a gift for me. He only glanced at it and sent it on to me, not realizing the plastic make-up of the dress (the sheath seems a bit short too). I went "out on a limb" (and a true test of friendship I may add) and explained the nature of the dress being plastic to him. I wanted to make sure that he didn't get ripped off. I believe he was a bit embarrassed (he shouldn't be).

So, I am sharing this keris with the Forum… so that all may be aware that what looks good on the Internet may be sometime else when you get it (like we didn't know that). Otherwise, it would have been an awesome Sumatran dress, no?

The keris looks like an older Javanese Keris (late 19c to early 20c), what do you all think?

Rick · 12th April 2005, 06:50 PM

Hi Wayne , I've been poring over my Tammens and I can't seem to find a real match to any of the dapor he shows in his outline drawings . This , of course doesn't mean all that much coming from me .

It could possibly be a simple Solo blade .

Since the dress is Sumatran , possibly the blade is too ( but only possibly) .
I'll continue poring through the pictures now ...........

The thing that's throwing me a curve is exactly that , the downward curve of the pecetan .

knife7knut · 12th April 2005, 10:38 PM

One of the easiest ways to test an object is to find a smooth spot and rub it briskly with your finger several times and then either sniff it or touch the tip of your tongue to the area.Styrene plastic not only gives off an odor(compare it by doing the same to a plastic model car)but will give a burning sensation to your tongue.
Celluloid(an early type of plastic made with cellulose nitrate,camphor,and alcohol)will give off a vaguely medicine type smell.Bakelite(another early plastic)gives off a very strong smell.Resins are probably similar to styrene(not too familiar with them).
If it is found to be made from celluloid,it should be isolated from other knives as when celluloid breaks down it gives off an extremely corrosive gas that will rust carbon steel very quickly.
I've had this problem with vintage pocket knives and it seems to occur at random.I've had several knives that had the scale on one side crumble and fall apart while the other side remained as new.No one seems to know exactly what triggers the reaction,but when it does the process is irreversible.
Just my two cents' worth.
Cheers
Ray

BSMStar · 13th April 2005, 01:08 AM

To dis-spell if it is plastic or not, here is a close up of the bottom of the face on the hulu. You can see the seam from the end of the beak to the neck, and the many bubbles... sanded seams are everywhere on the hulu and sheath as are the hollow bubbles (you can see them on the sheath edge here but blurry), but of course it is all painted, or chromed over and the plastic is not directly exposed for testing. I hope the picture helps.

12th April 2005, 06:50 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Hi Wayne , I've been poring over my Tammens and I can't seem to find a real match to any of the dapor he shows in his outline drawings . This , of course doesn't mean all that much coming from me . It could possibly be a simple Solo blade . Since the dress is Sumatran , possibly the blade is too ( but only possibly) . I'll continue poring through the pictures now ........... The thing that's throwing me a curve is exactly that , the downward curve of the pecetan . Last edited by Rick; 12th April 2005 at 07:10 PM.

12th April 2005, 10:38 PM	#6
knife7knut Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 31	Non-Destructive Test for Plastic One of the easiest ways to test an object is to find a smooth spot and rub it briskly with your finger several times and then either sniff it or touch the tip of your tongue to the area.Styrene plastic not only gives off an odor(compare it by doing the same to a plastic model car)but will give a burning sensation to your tongue. Celluloid(an early type of plastic made with cellulose nitrate,camphor,and alcohol)will give off a vaguely medicine type smell.Bakelite(another early plastic)gives off a very strong smell.Resins are probably similar to styrene(not too familiar with them). If it is found to be made from celluloid,it should be isolated from other knives as when celluloid breaks down it gives off an extremely corrosive gas that will rust carbon steel very quickly. I've had this problem with vintage pocket knives and it seems to occur at random.I've had several knives that had the scale on one side crumble and fall apart while the other side remained as new.No one seems to know exactly what triggers the reaction,but when it does the process is irreversible. Just my two cents' worth. Cheers Ray

13th April 2005, 01:08 AM	#7
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	To dis-spell if it is plastic or not, here is a close up of the bottom of the face on the hulu. You can see the seam from the end of the beak to the neck, and the many bubbles... sanded seams are everywhere on the hulu and sheath as are the hollow bubbles (you can see them on the sheath edge here but blurry), but of course it is all painted, or chromed over and the plastic is not directly exposed for testing. I hope the picture helps. Attached Images

12th April 2005, 02:33 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Wow, this is kinda scary stuff. Actually, we have seen this composite material used before. I believe we had a thread on a similar piece a while back. This does create all kinds of problems for eBay buyers. This would be hard stuff to catch unless the photos were really good (are they ever?) and Rahman is right to point out that if there is one like this there are no doubt many. Geez, even the pendok is plastic, eh? Makes buying from a reputable dealer even more attractive.

12th April 2005, 04:46 PM	#2
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	scary, to my bad judgement, it looks pretty good. i would also think there must be a lot more of them out there

12th April 2005, 05:43 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Not so much bad judgement Bill. This composite stuff DOES look good. I've been buying Asian statues made of this stuff for some time just because they look so good and are so cheap. But i'm sure i don't want my keris dress made out of it. Of course, as we have discussed before, if the item is listed correctly with full disclosure, there is no forgery. This dress is obviously made for the tourist market. My fear is that we will start seeing more of these being sold as horn or other natural materials.Put a mediocre old blade in that dress and it can be even harder to tell. Buyer beware.

12th April 2005, 06:29 PM	#4
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	As I have said in another thread, a very dear friend purchased this keris as a gift for me. He only glanced at it and sent it on to me, not realizing the plastic make-up of the dress (the sheath seems a bit short too). I went "out on a limb" (and a true test of friendship I may add) and explained the nature of the dress being plastic to him. I wanted to make sure that he didn't get ripped off. I believe he was a bit embarrassed (he shouldn't be). So, I am sharing this keris with the Forum… so that all may be aware that what looks good on the Internet may be sometime else when you get it (like we didn't know that). Otherwise, it would have been an awesome Sumatran dress, no? The keris looks like an older Javanese Keris (late 19c to early 20c), what do you all think?