Strange flamboyant blade rapier on ebay

[Atlantia]

The Victorians really liked the more ornate styles and the better Vicky repros can be very elaborate. I had a cup-hilt with the finest blade you could imagine (well possibly thats an understatement) but it was long and slender with several dozen shaped piercings in a wide central fuller, fantastic quality, just late 19thC!
If anything, the blade on the rapier in question is a little 'rough'. I wondered originally if it was a colonial piece, but despite the obvious talent of the maker, the surface doesn't look (to me) like it was ever polished. I think it was always intended to look old.
And is it me or does the pommel look cast? Like its come off a decorative railing.

[katana]

Hi,
Jim .... thank you for your kind words.

Are we sure that the pommel is a pineapple ??

[katana]

Originally Posted by katana

Are we sure that the pommel is a pineapple ??

How about the Mysore Raspberry ? OK unlikely .....but I feel more likely than a pineapple... afterall the orientation of the growth of the leaves is wrong, pineapples have 'blunted' ends ...the pommel is 'pointed' at its extreme end. A 'fruit' interpretation of the more common 'acorn' ???

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by katana

How about the Mysore Raspberry ? OK unlikely .....but I feel more likely than a pineapple...

You know it does look like a raspberry! lol

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by katana

How about the Mysore Raspberry ? OK unlikely .....but I feel more likely than a pineapple... afterall the orientation of the growth of the leaves is wrong, pineapples have 'blunted' ends ...the pommel is 'pointed' at its extreme end. A 'fruit' interpretation of the more common 'acorn' ???

Aw raspberries!!!
You're really good David!!! Clearly my botanical and culinary powers of observation are slipping !! Good grief, did I take my pill today!

I'm not sure about whether berry or not, but surely some kind of pod or budding plant.....I think we're more positive to the subcontinent and environs now.

Outstanding !!! Great observations you guys,


All the best,
Jim

[fearn]

Hi All,

Since I am a botanist, I do know exactly what you mean about it not looking like a realistic pineapple (image 1). It's a figurative pineapple (image 2, a modern finial).

If you modeled a pommel on a pineapple as we see it in the store, that bunch of leaves on the top would gouge your arm every time you brushed it.

Anyway, I think Jim was right in that it was a Tyler's sword, and here's an example from the web (image 3).

If anything, the hilt on this rapier looks more like something from Mars (see image 4: John Carter's sword from Edgar Rice Burroughs), not something from Asia, at least in terms of curlicue details.

My 0.002 cents,

F

Since I swiped the image, here's a link for the artist who made that martian longsword.

[katana]

Hi Fearn ,
I have seen the image for the Tyler's sword, after 'googling' "tyler's sword" in Google images ....the majority though were straight bladed I think you'll agree though that the quality of the blade on this tyler's sword seems poorer quality than on the 'thread starting' sword. In fact it looks as if it once was straight bladed and then the waves ground out.

The sword could indeed be a Tyler's Sword ...... or a Victorian "wallhanger".... or perhaps something more interesting. I myself, am undecided .... but , I do not close my mind to the possibilities...any 'sensible deductions' that cannot be definately dis-proved are 'potentially' true.

Sorry Fearn, when looking at your example of the 'pineapple' finial .... all I see is ... artichoke

Kind Regards David

[fearn]

Hi Katana,

As for the pineapple, I don't disagree with you on an botanical basis. On a commercial/artistic basis...well, I just googled "pineapple finial" and took one of the first images.

I've attached an artichoke finial for comparison.

As you can see, most swordsmiths aren't botanists. A cross-hatched ovoid pommel isn't really definitive.

Unless we assume that whoever made this was a plant freak or a realistic artist, there are a bunch of other things it could be, such as a raspberry, a protea, a badly done strawberry, some types of conifer cone, and the like. It could also be a stylized hand grenade, too, if you want to go way afield.

I'd identified the pommel as an pineapple because I knew that was a common motif in Europe. If it's not a pineapple, then we need to come up with a reason why someone mounted a poorly sculpted artichoke (or whatever it is) on the butt of a sword with a non-functional blade.

F