![]() |
|
![]() |
#1 |
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,192
|
![]()
This is an excellent topic Bill! and a great idea for a thread as it focuses on the kampilan specifically, and addresses not only the development of the weapon and its particulars, but fascinating history associated with it.
The observations and discussion added by everyone here have been really informative, and this is again, the kind of threads I really like seeing, that truly give the most current data available on a certain weapon form. MiguelDiaz and Mandaukudi, fantastic input with the great illustrations and cites on references! Excellent observations Vandoo, Toeodor, Maurice and Dajak! and Nonoy Tan thank you for addressing the word 'kampilan'. I wondered if the etymology of the word was known, and think arms and armour terminology is a fascinating factor in its study. Its great really learning more on these weapons, thank you guys! All the best, Jim |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]()
Jim, thanks
![]() Mandaukudi, thanks too for those wonderful images above! Quote:
In the four-man pic, what is interesting to me is the leftmost Ilongot's 'sidearm' which looks like a sword with a bifurcated hilt -- would this be the cousin of the Moro kampilan? ... and hence was the one the Spaniards described as a 'campilan'? Also the Ilongot in the center (standing) seems to be holding what looks very similar to a Moro panabas. The Ilongots by the way appear to have continued with their headhunting ways, long after the Igorots of the Cordillera have put it to a stop. See the 1959 police pic below (warning: the picture may be too gruesome to some). |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Hi Bill,
Some guy from my home town is now running an exhibition on Fernão Magalhães (Ferdinand Magellanvs) biography and his earth circum navigation. One of the illustrations shows the Portuguese captain being eliminated by the Lapu Lapu chieftain, after being weakened by an arrow in his leg, among other wounds. I wonder what is the age of this picture (painting?), and from where he did get it. He doesn't remember it either. But he promised to search his stuff and tell me. I think this is a sugestive depiction of the weapon used by the native leader ... at least in the author's imagination. Fernando |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]()
Thanks Miguel for posting the pictures of the Luzon-maybe-kampilan-inspired-swords.
A pity that they aren't easier to see from the pictures. I have this bolo that, based on Hein's old book, is supposed to be tribal and from Luzon? Do you recognise it from any of your sources? Michael |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]() Quote:
I'm not familiar with the form as I'm still a budding collector ![]() It appears though, based on the pics earlier posted in this forum (the ones taken at Madrid museum/s), that it's also possible that they are Visayan (i.e., from central Philippines). But I'm not really sure about that. I'm sure the others more familiar with the nuances of the forms can comment much more competently. Regards. Last edited by migueldiaz; 13th November 2008 at 02:53 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]()
I'd like to propose a theory on the probable use of those thingys on the upper tip of the kampilan's blade.
I'm not aware if this had been proposed before, but my theory is that those things are used to deliver poison to the enemy during combat. My train of thought would be: [1] Visayans customarily applied poison on their kampilans & krisses [WH Scott, in Barangay];On how to prove or debunk the theory, these are the things that can be done -- [a] if Pigafetta had a post-battle account, we should find out whether those wounded by the "large cutlass, which looked like a scimitar" were noted as having experienced symptoms of poisoning (e.g., nausea, vomitting, etc.);Back to the subject on whether in the first place the Visayans had kampilans similar to the ones used by the Moros of Mindanao (i.e., with spikelets and perforations), I think that's the case. Because Pigafetta described the fighting style of the men of Lapu-lapu as -- "When our muskets were discharged, the natives would never stand still, but leaped hither and thither, covering themselves with their shields." Now earlier, the Europeans and later the Americans described the Moro fighting style as exactly like that. So if the movements were the same, it stands to reason that the weapons used must have been very similar if not the same. Admittedly, all of the above are highly speculative. But hey, to echo Vandoo, let me end by saying that "That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!" ![]() ![]() Attached are pics of various spiked tips, as collated randomly from pics in the forum. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,637
|
![]() Quote:
The pictures just indicate Philippines to me. But maybe Visayas, as well as Mindanao, is an alternative to Luzon (from Hein)? Any forumites in Madrid who knows how it's described at the museum? Michael |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 293
|
![]()
Hi Michael,
The "bolo" you posted is used by people from the extreme east of Luzon (along the coast and the mountains near the coast). They call it "Katana" - probably a loan word. Nonoy |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]() Quote:
I often see that painting in various publications here in Manila, but I'm still to find out who the painter is. On a related matter, I'm now reading this book published by the local National Historical Institute, entitled Fernando Oliveira: Viagem de Fernao Magalhaes [The Voyage of Ferdinand Magellan]. Oliveira is a Portuguese linguist and maritime expert who between 1550 and 1560 interviewed one of the survivors of Magellan's crew who reached the Philippines. The only existing original manuscript of the interview is kept in a library in Leiden, Holland. The copy of the first page and the two pages from where the quote below was lifted, are attached below. The manuscript's French annotated edition was authored by Pierre Valiere in 1976. Then the transliteration and the English translation was done by Peter Schreurs in 2002. I was looking for a description of the weapons Lapulapu and his men used against Magellan but Oliveira's interviewee didn't say anything about it: "And so it came to pass that on the next Sunday, through the goodness and grace of God, the king [Humabon, of Cebu] and his wife the queen with some of the leading citizens were converted and asked for baptism.The words in brackets are my own annotations. The other person who recounted the events was the Genoese pilot, Juan Bautista, who was with Magellan also. If anybody has the text of his account, then that might provide another lead on whether it was indeed the kampilan that was also used against Magellan. Last edited by migueldiaz; 17th November 2008 at 04:01 PM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 |
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,138
|
![]()
THERE ARE MANY MISTAKES IN AMONG THE GOOD WRITTEN REFRENCE INFORMATION AS WELL AS DISPLAYS IN MUSEUMS. WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS USE LOGIC AND OUR KNOWLEGE TO SORT THRU ALL OF IT AND DISCOUNT THAT WHICH DOES NOT FIT AND COMPILE THAT INFORMATION THAT DOES APPLY. THERE ARE MANY PICTURES AS WELL AS LOTS OF GOOD INFORMATION AND IDEAS ON VARIOUS SWORDS HERE IN THE FORUM POSTS.
PERHAPS SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO GO THRU IT ALL AND SEPARATE THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF AND PURSUE SOME OF THE GOOD IDEAS TO SEE IF NEW INFORMATION COULD BE GAINED IN THAT WAY. THE INFORMATION COULD BE CONDENSED AND THEN FORM THE CORE FOR FURTHER STUDY. AS TO WHAT THE SWORD LOOKED LIKE THAT KILLED MAGELLAN THOUGH AN INTERESTING TOPIC I FEAR IT WILL NOT SHED MUCH LIGHT ON THE KAMPILIAN AS IT WILL DEAL PRIMARILY WITH THE DEATH OF THE GREAT MAN FIRST AND THE ONE WHO DISPATCHED HIM SECOND THE SWORD WILL RECEIVE LITTLE ATTENTION. A FRIEND OF MINE IS EXPERIMENTING WITH A NEW TYPE OF MACHINE THAT IS ABLE TO DETERMINE AGE AND ESTABLISH PROVENANCE WITHOUT DAMAGEING THE OBJECT. HE IS CURRENTLY WORKING WITH POTTERY ,STONE AND GOLD ARTEFACTS AS THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD ARCHELOGICAL INFORMATION ESPECIALLY ON THE POTTERY. PERHAPS WHEN IT IS ESTABLISHED TO WORK WELL AND THE BENCHMARKS ARE SET UP IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO GAIN MORE ACCURATE INFORMATION ON SWORDS AS WELL AS OTHER ITEMS. I SUSPECT THE KAMPILIAN EVOLVED FROM A SHORTER WEAPON SUCH AS THE MANDAU WHICH IS PRESENT IN BORNEO OR THE SIMULAR SWORDS USED BY THE TIBOLI AND BAGOBO IN MINDANAO. THERE ARE PROBABLY OTHER SIMULAR WEAPONS FROM MALAYSIA, INDIA, INDONESIA, ECT. THE INFLUENCE OF THE CHOPPING STYLE OF BLADE MAY HAVE ORIGINALLY CAME IN FROM ANOTHER AREA DURING THE VARIOUS WAVES OF IMIGRATION. BUT MOST EXAMPLES OF THE LARGE FORM KAMPILIAN WE RECOGNIZE AS A WAR SWORD SEEM TO BE MOSTLY IN THE PHILIPPINES AND BORNEO AREA. FOR THAT REASON I SUSPECT THE LARGE WAR SWORD KAMPILIAN ORIGINATED IN THAT AREA. GIVEN THE LARGER SIZE OF MORO WEAPONS (PANABAS, KRIS, KAMPILIAN) IN RELATION TO MOST OTHERS IN THE AREA IT IS LIKELY THEY HAD A ROLE IN ITS DEVELOPMENT. THE MURUT SWORD IS ALSO LARGE BUT I SUSPECT THE FORM WAS INFLUENCED FROM ARABIC OR INDIAN SWORDS AS THE BLADE IS SO MUCH DIFFERENT FROM OTHER TRIBES IN BORNEO SO WILL DISCOUNT IT FROM THIS DISCUSSION. THE PISO PODANG ALSO FALLES INTO THIS CATEGORY WITH THE PAKAYUN BLADES, BOTH LIKELY WERE TRADE ITEMS ORIGINALLY. AS TO THE FANG DAGGER AND THE TWO MOROCCAN DAGGERS YEP WE RECOGNIZED THEM BUT AS THE DISCUSSION IS ON KAMPILIAN I IGNORED THE MISTAKE AS IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO SEE SUCH MISTAKES IN MUSEUMS. ![]() Last edited by VANDOO; 17th November 2008 at 04:05 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]() Quote:
![]() Indeed on the one hand these blades tend to have a standard form. Yet on the other hand, the form tends to be dynamic as the sword is continually made more responsive to its new environment (which environment happened to be dynamic also). On the type/s of sword used by Lapulapu and his men against Magallanes, I have to agree that it will be difficult to definitively establish that. But let's see if the indirect ways (e.g., studying what the prehispanic blades of the Visayans were in general, etc.) can at least bring us to something very plausible. PS - On the idea of somebody collating all the previous discussions on the kampilan, it occurred to me already that maybe I can draft the kampilan FAQ. But problem is, my job gets in the way! ![]() ![]() Anyway, it's in my to-do list. But if somebody can beat me to it, then that's even better. ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | ||
(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
|
![]()
Hi Lorenz
Quote:
Quote:
Fascinating stuff ... quite readable, even having being handwritten five centuries ago. Fernando |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]() Quote:
Yes, going over these firsthand accounts is fascinating all right. Here's more quotes from the book I mentioned, yet still no clue as to whether anything resembling a kampilan as we know it figured in the battle: "Here we have arrived at the fatal day: that on which Magellan meets with death. After the refusal of the other kings to obey the Christian king and pay the required tribute to Magellan consisting of three goats, three pigs, and three sacks of rice, the latter organizes a punitive expedition on 27 April 1521 (some authors say 28 April).I think I should buy the modern translation of Pigafetta's book, as he appears to be the most astute observer among those that with Magallanes at the time ... for sure we can find there more info as to what edged weapons the native Filipinos carried then ... ![]() PS - For instance this is how Pigafetta described one Mindanao rajah he met: "And he [Rajah Calambu, of what is now Agusan del Norte province in Mindanao island] was the most handsome person we saw among those peoples. He had very black hair to his shoulders, with a silk cloth on his head, and two large gold rings hanging from his ears. He wore a cotton cloth, embroidered with silk, which covered him from his waist to his knees. At his side he had a dagger, with a long handle, and all of gold, the sheath of which was of carved wood. Withal he wore on his person perfumes of storax and benzoin. He was tawny and painted all over. His island is called Butuan and Calaghan." Last edited by migueldiaz; 18th November 2008 at 03:58 AM. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
|
![]()
Here's more speculation on my part ...
In all of the eyewitness accounts of the Battle of Mactan, all mentioned about lances and bamboo spears. But it was only Pigafetta who mentioned a scimitar/cutlass-looking sword as having been used. And the mention of that sword specifically referred to Magellan being inflicted with a blow from one, just before he died. Thus it looks to me that the use of swords among the Visayans then was not prevalent (at least in Lapulapu's men). Perhaps this would be because metals and steel were hard to come by. Which would then mean that only Lapulapu and some of the nobles would have had swords. Hence, I cannot help but conclude that it must have been Lapulapu himself (or one of his royalties) who personally inflicted one of the fatal blows to Magellan. Now as to whether it was a kampilan or a kris (per WH Scott's Barangay), we still have to establish that ... |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|