Mughal Kard?

RSWORD · 11th April 2005, 11:16 PM

I think Jose will share the overall dimensions of the knife but it is a small, petite knife that seems to have a delicate nature. Jose has found some early Mughal court wear with small, petite knifes stuffed behind a sash and so perhaps these little knives were meant for court wear. I have examined Jose's example and it is a lovely knife but slender, long and well proportioned. I had often wondered if it was a knife that might have originally been part of a trousse but some of the pictures Jose dug up the knives bore similiarity to his example. That would move the dating back a bit on the piece if this is the case.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th April 2005, 03:17 PM

RSword, do you mean that the knife is a bit like this one?
The one shown was made in the first quarter of 1600.
Total length 21 cm, length of blade 12 cm. It is in the same scabbard as a katar, and the knife is defenately not meant for fighting - more likely for eating.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th April 2005, 09:00 PM

RSword, is it so, that Battara has lost interest in this subject?

Battara · 12th April 2005, 09:13 PM

NO, just listening...er...reading and trying to find a time to give measurements and even some pictures of Mughal miniature research. Maybe tomorrow.

I do have another question, though, regarding the end of the pommel where a piece used to hang - would this be on a trousse or "Mughal steak knife"?

BTW - just finished reading Elgood's new book. Thus the background to some of my questions.

tom hyle · 13th April 2005, 02:50 AM

Jens' little knife bears a striking resemblance to European knives of the same period, though it seems to have a long ferule and stalk tang? While the European type is more often with a forged or applied bolster, and scale handle.

Jens Nordlunde · 13th April 2005, 02:11 PM

Very well done Tom. The knife was made in London by John Jencks (1576-1625). He got his cutlers mark 1606-7.

Jens

RSWORD · 14th April 2005, 03:11 AM

It is an interesting little knife and I have had the opportunity to handle it. It is unlike any other Kard and so I was thinking out loud in regards to it maybe originally part of a trousse. To me, it does not resemble the knife you posted, Jens, other than maybe the dimensions somewhat. I think Jose's research into early miniatures depicting what look like slender elegant knives might be revealing. As far as trousse, it seems more like oriental examples, just in that it is long and slender, no more.

12th April 2005, 03:17 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	RSword, do you mean that the knife is a bit like this one? The one shown was made in the first quarter of 1600. Total length 21 cm, length of blade 12 cm. It is in the same scabbard as a katar, and the knife is defenately not meant for fighting - more likely for eating. Attached Images

11th April 2005, 11:16 PM	#1
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	I think Jose will share the overall dimensions of the knife but it is a small, petite knife that seems to have a delicate nature. Jose has found some early Mughal court wear with small, petite knifes stuffed behind a sash and so perhaps these little knives were meant for court wear. I have examined Jose's example and it is a lovely knife but slender, long and well proportioned. I had often wondered if it was a knife that might have originally been part of a trousse but some of the pictures Jose dug up the knives bore similiarity to his example. That would move the dating back a bit on the piece if this is the case.

12th April 2005, 09:00 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	RSword, is it so, that Battara has lost interest in this subject?

12th April 2005, 09:13 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	NO, just listening...er...reading and trying to find a time to give measurements and even some pictures of Mughal miniature research. Maybe tomorrow. I do have another question, though, regarding the end of the pommel where a piece used to hang - would this be on a trousse or "Mughal steak knife"? BTW - just finished reading Elgood's new book. Thus the background to some of my questions.

13th April 2005, 02:50 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Jens' little knife bears a striking resemblance to European knives of the same period, though it seems to have a long ferule and stalk tang? While the European type is more often with a forged or applied bolster, and scale handle.

13th April 2005, 02:11 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Very well done Tom. The knife was made in London by John Jencks (1576-1625). He got his cutlers mark 1606-7. Jens

14th April 2005, 03:11 AM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	It is an interesting little knife and I have had the opportunity to handle it. It is unlike any other Kard and so I was thinking out loud in regards to it maybe originally part of a trousse. To me, it does not resemble the knife you posted, Jens, other than maybe the dimensions somewhat. I think Jose's research into early miniatures depicting what look like slender elegant knives might be revealing. As far as trousse, it seems more like oriental examples, just in that it is long and slender, no more.