I just couldn't wait!!!

Valjhun · 5th November 2008, 03:22 PM

I do not know anything about them, but WOW!!!! I LIKE THAT!!!!

josh stout · 5th November 2008, 04:09 PM

What a nice piece. I think I can help you with the name somewhat. Ching Long is referring to the Qianlong dynasty (1736-1796). I cannot help with the dating, but it could well be true. “Yan Yue” (there are some alternate spellings) is the name for this weapon in the Imperial regulations, translating as “reclining moon”. “Dai dao” I think is a southern dialect version of da dao meaning just “big knife”. You could very properly refer to the halberd as simply a yan yue dao. More commonly, but less properly this would be called a gwandao in martial arts circles because of its association with the legendary General Gwan.
It appears to missing the but spike, which I would have been interested to see, but in general this is an amazing find. The quality is very high particularly in the dragon. Most look much more flat. Check to see if the eyes look like they are missing a bit. In some high end things, the eyes had a separate part designed to wobble around that is usually lost.
I think you have found an outstanding example of something that is quite hard to find in any condition.
Josh

josh stout · 5th November 2008, 04:18 PM

Just to be clear, there are examples like this that turn out to be decorative pieces for Chinese temples throughout the regions of the Chinese Diaspora, but mostly southern China and SEA. Check the blade for signs of folding. That will tell you if you are looking at a weapon or a ritual piece.

I think you are looking at a weapon, but when I look at that dragon I wonder a bit.
Josh

Gavin Nugent · 6th November 2008, 05:30 AM

Thanks for coiming in Jim, Valjhun and Josh.

You are absolutely right Jim, it is going to be a long week and maybe longer if they take their time invoicing me. Thank you very much for the congratulations too, it is not very often such a rare piece pops it's head up in the world and it is nice to know average joe can still find them at very affordable prices.

As much as I like handling all types of swords and knives, since the birth of my son, it is time to focus on just one other interest which is my true calling, the Chinese weapons. I too am fasinated with the martial applications of such weapons.

Thanks too Valjhun, seeing it also gave me the WOW feeling too and I knew it just had to come home with me. The unusual always gets my vote.

Josh, glad you popped by with your input, lots to talk about with this one, and speculate too.

Thanks Rick, aka Rsword for taking an interest with my end of the world in email communication, as always, I am appreciative of all input that you have on a myriad of subjects.

Josh I was supprised and very happy to hear the Ching Long dating from my friend in Hong Kong. I have a lovely ivory foo dog censor from the Qianlong Dynasty with the seal mark of the era, so I wonder if I'll find a similar mark on this piece?

I immeadiately thought of the Kwandao in martial arts talk but this just seemed so much larger by proprtions that I had to ask further. The Hong Kong naming of this and Southern dialect connection you speak of makes sense.

A temple piece makes sense too as I am sure only royalty and the like could afford a huge weapon of such quality, I wouldn't expect the average soldier to walk with this monster constantly and I would imagine in most cases, a temple piece, although there are ceremonial examples only, a temple piece of this era should in fact be a weapon as well, but that's just my guess.

I think it is a weapon, although you comment on the dragon pointing elsewhere? I can see good forged quality in the steel and as there is no disk guard, the dragon does in fact appear to be that guard and the dragon from my eyes appears to be that of almost a basket hilt.

I have seen the bouncy eyes that you refer to also, I can't put my hands on where I saw them but if you can find a link, please do share it. I too saw the butt spike lacking but it didn't bother me at all. I may yet be pleasently surprised but a small simple one?

I'll be sure to add a lot more images in a week or two when it arrives, until then, I'd love to see more images from anywhere to compare with this if there are any?

Ivory Lion with mark is below

thanks

Gav

6th November 2008, 05:30 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks for coming in guys Thanks for coiming in Jim, Valjhun and Josh. You are absolutely right Jim, it is going to be a long week and maybe longer if they take their time invoicing me. Thank you very much for the congratulations too, it is not very often such a rare piece pops it's head up in the world and it is nice to know average joe can still find them at very affordable prices. As much as I like handling all types of swords and knives, since the birth of my son, it is time to focus on just one other interest which is my true calling, the Chinese weapons. I too am fasinated with the martial applications of such weapons. Thanks too Valjhun, seeing it also gave me the WOW feeling too and I knew it just had to come home with me. The unusual always gets my vote. Josh, glad you popped by with your input, lots to talk about with this one, and speculate too. Thanks Rick, aka Rsword for taking an interest with my end of the world in email communication, as always, I am appreciative of all input that you have on a myriad of subjects. Josh I was supprised and very happy to hear the Ching Long dating from my friend in Hong Kong. I have a lovely ivory foo dog censor from the Qianlong Dynasty with the seal mark of the era, so I wonder if I'll find a similar mark on this piece? I immeadiately thought of the Kwandao in martial arts talk but this just seemed so much larger by proprtions that I had to ask further. The Hong Kong naming of this and Southern dialect connection you speak of makes sense. A temple piece makes sense too as I am sure only royalty and the like could afford a huge weapon of such quality, I wouldn't expect the average soldier to walk with this monster constantly and I would imagine in most cases, a temple piece, although there are ceremonial examples only, a temple piece of this era should in fact be a weapon as well, but that's just my guess. I think it is a weapon, although you comment on the dragon pointing elsewhere? I can see good forged quality in the steel and as there is no disk guard, the dragon does in fact appear to be that guard and the dragon from my eyes appears to be that of almost a basket hilt. I have seen the bouncy eyes that you refer to also, I can't put my hands on where I saw them but if you can find a link, please do share it. I too saw the butt spike lacking but it didn't bother me at all. I may yet be pleasently surprised but a small simple one? I'll be sure to add a lot more images in a week or two when it arrives, until then, I'd love to see more images from anywhere to compare with this if there are any? Ivory Lion with mark is below thanks Gav Attached Images

5th November 2008, 03:22 PM	#1
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	I do not know anything about them, but WOW!!!! I LIKE THAT!!!!

5th November 2008, 04:09 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	What a nice piece. I think I can help you with the name somewhat. Ching Long is referring to the Qianlong dynasty (1736-1796). I cannot help with the dating, but it could well be true. “Yan Yue” (there are some alternate spellings) is the name for this weapon in the Imperial regulations, translating as “reclining moon”. “Dai dao” I think is a southern dialect version of da dao meaning just “big knife”. You could very properly refer to the halberd as simply a yan yue dao. More commonly, but less properly this would be called a gwandao in martial arts circles because of its association with the legendary General Gwan. It appears to missing the but spike, which I would have been interested to see, but in general this is an amazing find. The quality is very high particularly in the dragon. Most look much more flat. Check to see if the eyes look like they are missing a bit. In some high end things, the eyes had a separate part designed to wobble around that is usually lost. I think you have found an outstanding example of something that is quite hard to find in any condition. Josh

5th November 2008, 04:18 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Just to be clear, there are examples like this that turn out to be decorative pieces for Chinese temples throughout the regions of the Chinese Diaspora, but mostly southern China and SEA. Check the blade for signs of folding. That will tell you if you are looking at a weapon or a ritual piece. I think you are looking at a weapon, but when I look at that dragon I wonder a bit. Josh