Keris Sundang Melayu with a parrot hilt

Rick · 31st October 2008, 08:28 PM

From what I see in the pictures of this piece the blade is quite wide for it's length .
This is a proportion ratio (I have) not seen before in Moro blades .

The engraving is similar to Moro work yet seems subtly different .

I think it's all Malay .

And beautiful !

VVV · 31st October 2008, 09:45 PM

Thanks for all comments!

On the engravings I have the same motif on 3 of my 4 Terengganu dressed Keris Sundang.
So I thought it was a typical Malay motif?
I tried to find more info about Tengku Ibrahim Tengku Wook in the Spirit of Wood book, but couldn't?
I also noticed that the smaller hulu kakatua, for regular-sized keris, is represented in the A4 Kerner book too.
So I assume that it has some age, several carvers produced it and it´s not that uncommon?
It looks like the hilt was made from the same block of wood as the sheath so I don't think it was an isolated repair.
Maybe a complete later redress however?
My Terengganu Keris Sundang #4 is on scabbard renovation at the moment but it also has a quite wide blade.
It's about the same size as this one.

Michael

kai · 1st November 2008, 01:18 AM

Hello Michael,

Where do you find all those Terengganu examples?!?

How is the clamp attached?

Quote:

It looks like the hilt was made from the same block of wood as the sheath so I don't think it was an isolated repair.
Maybe a complete later redress however?

To me it seems that the blade may also not be very old - just going by the workmanship. BTW, can you see what caused the notches visible in the separation line?

I'd guess that the whole ensemble got made en suite. Maybe WW2 (+/- 30 years)?

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 1st November 2008, 04:25 PM

Hello Kai,

It's interesting that you asked about the clamps as it seems that the Malay clamps most often
doesn't seem to be connected to the grip?
That's the case on 3 of mine and the 4th has lost its clamp.
Also I have noticed that they quite often don't get replaced, in case of loss?
It seems too as if only one clamp is more usual than two.
And this undependent of age.
I can't see what caused the notches but I doubt that this blade could be from 1975 (1945 + 30 years)?
Please let me know, either on the forum or private, how you could conclude this based on the pictures alone?
Or maybe I misunderstood you?

Michael

kai · 2nd November 2008, 09:10 PM

Hello Michael,

Quote:

It's interesting that you asked about the clamps as it seems that the Malay clamps most often doesn't seem to be connected to the grip?
That's the case on 3 of mine and the 4th has lost its clamp.

I think I see a narrow opening on the lower base of the brass grip which seems to suggest that there once was such a metal strip present to secure the clamp (as usually found in Moro kris), isn't it?

Quote:

I can't see what caused the notches but I doubt that this blade could be from 1975 (1945 + 30 years)?

Well, note that my guess was 1915-1975; this is only based on workmanship which just doesn't seem on par with old-style work (and this doesn't seem to be an antique village style, poor warrior kind of blade either): separation line not well finished, uneven engraving lines (especially including the okir motifs), very shallow central fuller, carving work on both sides of the gangya lack the usual "flow" IMVHO, not very careful decoration of the brass grip, and the overall finish of blade surface seems to be pretty rough. Nothing definitive but had you not mentioned a decent patina on the wood, I would had been hard pressed to suggest anything else than post-WW2. Without examining the piece personally, I could be way off, of course. Don't think so though...

Regards,
Kai

BluErf · 1st November 2008, 04:34 PM

Congratulations, Michael. A fine piece. Peninsula Malay Sundang, and yes from Terengganu. The parrot pommel flows nicely with the rest of the piece.

Tengku Ibrahim can be described as someone obsessed with fine details. His works do not follow tradition closely, but the fine-ness in his works makes up for it. He is also known for the crocodile hilt form, which is really unheard of before. There's a keris on display now in the Asian Civilisations Museum here in Singapore that was carved by Tengku Ibrahim. It was his intention to have that keris presented to the ACM. It is a very fine example of his work. When I have the time, I'll bring my camera and tripod to the museum to take a good photo of it.

kai · 2nd November 2008, 09:14 PM

Hello Kai Wee,

I'd be very interested in a pic of Tengku Ibrahim's work!

Quote:

Tengku Ibrahim can be described as someone obsessed with fine details.

Would you think that the kakatua pommel shown here seems to be up to his standards?

Regards,
Kai

jonng · 3rd November 2008, 09:28 AM

I think this is the one. I've cropped it because the file is too big. A hurried shot though.

jonathan

Marcokeris · 3rd November 2008, 11:40 AM

Jonng: beautiful hit!
BluErf: Is it possible to see a crocodile hit form? Is a hit for kudi or other knife?

Alam Shah · 4th November 2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

I think this is the one. I've cropped it because the file is too big. A hurried shot though.

jonathan

Yup, that's the one.

Btw, congrats on your newest acquisition.. the old ivory jawa demam hilt.

3rd November 2008, 09:28 AM	#8
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	I think this is the one. I've cropped it because the file is too big. A hurried shot though. jonathan Attached Images

31st October 2008, 08:28 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	From what I see in the pictures of this piece the blade is quite wide for it's length . This is a proportion ratio (I have) not seen before in Moro blades . The engraving is similar to Moro work yet seems subtly different . I think it's all Malay . And beautiful !

31st October 2008, 09:45 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for all comments! On the engravings I have the same motif on 3 of my 4 Terengganu dressed Keris Sundang. So I thought it was a typical Malay motif? I tried to find more info about Tengku Ibrahim Tengku Wook in the Spirit of Wood book, but couldn't? I also noticed that the smaller hulu kakatua, for regular-sized keris, is represented in the A4 Kerner book too. So I assume that it has some age, several carvers produced it and it´s not that uncommon? It looks like the hilt was made from the same block of wood as the sheath so I don't think it was an isolated repair. Maybe a complete later redress however? My Terengganu Keris Sundang #4 is on scabbard renovation at the moment but it also has a quite wide blade. It's about the same size as this one. Michael

1st November 2008, 04:25 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hello Kai, It's interesting that you asked about the clamps as it seems that the Malay clamps most often doesn't seem to be connected to the grip? That's the case on 3 of mine and the 4th has lost its clamp. Also I have noticed that they quite often don't get replaced, in case of loss? It seems too as if only one clamp is more usual than two. And this undependent of age. I can't see what caused the notches but I doubt that this blade could be from 1975 (1945 + 30 years)? Please let me know, either on the forum or private, how you could conclude this based on the pictures alone? Or maybe I misunderstood you? Michael

1st November 2008, 04:34 PM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Congratulations, Michael. A fine piece. Peninsula Malay Sundang, and yes from Terengganu. The parrot pommel flows nicely with the rest of the piece. Tengku Ibrahim can be described as someone obsessed with fine details. His works do not follow tradition closely, but the fine-ness in his works makes up for it. He is also known for the crocodile hilt form, which is really unheard of before. There's a keris on display now in the Asian Civilisations Museum here in Singapore that was carved by Tengku Ibrahim. It was his intention to have that keris presented to the ACM. It is a very fine example of his work. When I have the time, I'll bring my camera and tripod to the museum to take a good photo of it.

3rd November 2008, 11:40 AM	#9
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Jonng: beautiful hit! BluErf: Is it possible to see a crocodile hit form? Is a hit for kudi or other knife?