Keris Sundang Melayu with a parrot hilt

PenangsangII · 31st October 2008, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I disagree with Newsteel. I think this is most probably a Malay sundang. Just take a look at the gonjo and the way the greneng goes up the blade. This is not a Moro style.

yes, the ganja and the greneng looks Malay, but the inscriptions indicate heavy moro influence

Newsteel · 31st October 2008, 10:28 AM

Hi Michael,

No I do not suggest he carved this hilt. I do not have any good source about Tengku Ibrahim Tengku Wook. What was known is that he is a well-known mastercarver at Terengganu. He is also mentioned in the book 'Spirit of the Woods'. If I'm not wrong, he is the first to carve kakaktua (parrot) hilt for keris, only meant for the sultan. This form soon got attention and a lot more carvers tend to follow it.

As for the blade, it is hard to actually pin point the exact region. Most malay sundang would have a smaller size and the metal preference is high carbon steel which tends to look more greyish black. But this is not a main factor when identifying malay sundang. We have example which looks Javanese with sogokan and tikel alis. But surprisingly came from Sulu. Picture below taken from Bill Marsh collection.

Marcokeris · 31st October 2008, 11:35 AM

Michael IMO the hit could be also a repaired hit where the original top piece (maybe lost) has been changed with a parrot's head (the same of Nautilus for some rare hits).

David · 31st October 2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsteel

As for the blade, it is hard to actually pin point the exact region. Most malay sundang would have a smaller size and the metal preference is high carbon steel which tends to look more greyish black. But this is not a main factor when identifying malay sundang. We have example which looks Javanese with sogokan and tikel alis. But surprisingly came from Sulu. Picture below taken from Bill Marsh collection.

Bill Marsh's kris is a very old one from what i can see, what Cato calls the "archaic" style and dates to the 18th century. Michael's is obviously much newer than that. Could be early 20th C, give or take. The features you see on Bill's kris were more common in that day when the Moro kris was much closer to the look of Indonesian keris. But at this later date i have not seen any Moro kris that have a gonjo slant and greneng like Michael's sundang. The dress is Malay and the blade shows some very Malay attributes. Yes, the engraved lines are very Moro influenced. Still, given the entire package, i would lay my money on a Malay origin for the blade as well as the dress.

Rick · 31st October 2008, 08:28 PM

From what I see in the pictures of this piece the blade is quite wide for it's length .
This is a proportion ratio (I have) not seen before in Moro blades .

The engraving is similar to Moro work yet seems subtly different .

I think it's all Malay .

And beautiful !

VVV · 31st October 2008, 09:45 PM

Thanks for all comments!

On the engravings I have the same motif on 3 of my 4 Terengganu dressed Keris Sundang.
So I thought it was a typical Malay motif?
I tried to find more info about Tengku Ibrahim Tengku Wook in the Spirit of Wood book, but couldn't?
I also noticed that the smaller hulu kakatua, for regular-sized keris, is represented in the A4 Kerner book too.
So I assume that it has some age, several carvers produced it and it´s not that uncommon?
It looks like the hilt was made from the same block of wood as the sheath so I don't think it was an isolated repair.
Maybe a complete later redress however?
My Terengganu Keris Sundang #4 is on scabbard renovation at the moment but it also has a quite wide blade.
It's about the same size as this one.

Michael

kai · 1st November 2008, 01:18 AM

Hello Michael,

Where do you find all those Terengganu examples?!?

How is the clamp attached?

Quote:

It looks like the hilt was made from the same block of wood as the sheath so I don't think it was an isolated repair.
Maybe a complete later redress however?

To me it seems that the blade may also not be very old - just going by the workmanship. BTW, can you see what caused the notches visible in the separation line?

I'd guess that the whole ensemble got made en suite. Maybe WW2 (+/- 30 years)?

Regards,
Kai

VVV · 1st November 2008, 04:25 PM

Hello Kai,

It's interesting that you asked about the clamps as it seems that the Malay clamps most often
doesn't seem to be connected to the grip?
That's the case on 3 of mine and the 4th has lost its clamp.
Also I have noticed that they quite often don't get replaced, in case of loss?
It seems too as if only one clamp is more usual than two.
And this undependent of age.
I can't see what caused the notches but I doubt that this blade could be from 1975 (1945 + 30 years)?
Please let me know, either on the forum or private, how you could conclude this based on the pictures alone?
Or maybe I misunderstood you?

Michael

BluErf · 1st November 2008, 04:34 PM

Congratulations, Michael. A fine piece. Peninsula Malay Sundang, and yes from Terengganu. The parrot pommel flows nicely with the rest of the piece.

Tengku Ibrahim can be described as someone obsessed with fine details. His works do not follow tradition closely, but the fine-ness in his works makes up for it. He is also known for the crocodile hilt form, which is really unheard of before. There's a keris on display now in the Asian Civilisations Museum here in Singapore that was carved by Tengku Ibrahim. It was his intention to have that keris presented to the ACM. It is a very fine example of his work. When I have the time, I'll bring my camera and tripod to the museum to take a good photo of it.

31st October 2008, 10:28 AM	#2
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	Hi Michael, No I do not suggest he carved this hilt. I do not have any good source about Tengku Ibrahim Tengku Wook. What was known is that he is a well-known mastercarver at Terengganu. He is also mentioned in the book 'Spirit of the Woods'. If I'm not wrong, he is the first to carve kakaktua (parrot) hilt for keris, only meant for the sultan. This form soon got attention and a lot more carvers tend to follow it. As for the blade, it is hard to actually pin point the exact region. Most malay sundang would have a smaller size and the metal preference is high carbon steel which tends to look more greyish black. But this is not a main factor when identifying malay sundang. We have example which looks Javanese with sogokan and tikel alis. But surprisingly came from Sulu. Picture below taken from Bill Marsh collection. Attached Images

31st October 2008, 11:35 AM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Michael IMO the hit could be also a repaired hit where the original top piece (maybe lost) has been changed with a parrot's head (the same of Nautilus for some rare hits).

31st October 2008, 08:28 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	From what I see in the pictures of this piece the blade is quite wide for it's length . This is a proportion ratio (I have) not seen before in Moro blades . The engraving is similar to Moro work yet seems subtly different . I think it's all Malay . And beautiful !

31st October 2008, 09:45 PM	#6
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for all comments! On the engravings I have the same motif on 3 of my 4 Terengganu dressed Keris Sundang. So I thought it was a typical Malay motif? I tried to find more info about Tengku Ibrahim Tengku Wook in the Spirit of Wood book, but couldn't? I also noticed that the smaller hulu kakatua, for regular-sized keris, is represented in the A4 Kerner book too. So I assume that it has some age, several carvers produced it and it´s not that uncommon? It looks like the hilt was made from the same block of wood as the sheath so I don't think it was an isolated repair. Maybe a complete later redress however? My Terengganu Keris Sundang #4 is on scabbard renovation at the moment but it also has a quite wide blade. It's about the same size as this one. Michael

1st November 2008, 04:25 PM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hello Kai, It's interesting that you asked about the clamps as it seems that the Malay clamps most often doesn't seem to be connected to the grip? That's the case on 3 of mine and the 4th has lost its clamp. Also I have noticed that they quite often don't get replaced, in case of loss? It seems too as if only one clamp is more usual than two. And this undependent of age. I can't see what caused the notches but I doubt that this blade could be from 1975 (1945 + 30 years)? Please let me know, either on the forum or private, how you could conclude this based on the pictures alone? Or maybe I misunderstood you? Michael

1st November 2008, 04:34 PM	#9
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Congratulations, Michael. A fine piece. Peninsula Malay Sundang, and yes from Terengganu. The parrot pommel flows nicely with the rest of the piece. Tengku Ibrahim can be described as someone obsessed with fine details. His works do not follow tradition closely, but the fine-ness in his works makes up for it. He is also known for the crocodile hilt form, which is really unheard of before. There's a keris on display now in the Asian Civilisations Museum here in Singapore that was carved by Tengku Ibrahim. It was his intention to have that keris presented to the ACM. It is a very fine example of his work. When I have the time, I'll bring my camera and tripod to the museum to take a good photo of it.