Medieval hand cannons -- asian?

[Ed]

Thank you for your thoughts.

An incorrect assumption is that Iron was not worked at an early date in China and that any barrel that is of iron would, necessarily, have to have been made in Europe. This is wrong as I discovered in conversations with various folks who have expertise in eastern technology.

The identification of these sorts of barrels remains an open question.

[Ed]

The illustration is from an early work on Chinese military matters. The forms ore identicle to those seen on weapons identified as european.

Trade, perhaps? But from where to where?

[katana]

Interesting picture Ed,
the 'rings' on the cannon ......re-inforcement, 'cooling' fins or perhaps duel purpose .....I wonder ???

Regards David

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by katana

Interesting picture Ed, the 'rings' on the cannon ......re-inforcement, 'cooling' fins or perhaps duel purpose .....I wonder ???

Ed, interesting image indeed.

David, the rings would appear to me as reinforcements primarily.

And I believe it's because the ancient Chinese cannons and European cannons must have shared the same construction methodology -- the barrel was made from several thick slats of metal, then bound together with rings.

In fact the word "barrel" [of a gun or cannon] is a very descriptive term, historically -- a gun barrel then was made in a very similar fashion vis-a-vis how a barrel [container] was made.

[migueldiaz]

This must have been the very first hand cannon ever --

"The oldest extant cannon that we have is a bronze cannon from the Yuan dynasty, with an inscription dated 1332. It is 35.3cm long, with a calibre of 10.5cm and a weight of 6.94kg. The inscription also tells us that it was cannon number 300 in its frontier guard unit, showing that such cannons were manufactured and deployed in large numbers."

The full article can be found here.

[fearn]

There's a wikipedia article that talks about early Chinese gunpowder technology, and it includes a picture of the Yuan Dynasty handgun dated to 1298 CE. According to the article, the oldest evidence for a Chinese cannon is from a stone sculpture dated 1128 CE.

One thing that's interesting is that the article also talks about the predecssors of guns: bamboo (later metal) fire lances that burned gunpowder and sprayed poison, bits of ceramic, or whatever out the front. The step from a barrel shoving burning material in someone's face to spraying things to a gun is pretty direct, and for once, it looks like the weapons evolved in a fairly linear fashion, rather than the discontinuous mode we're used to seeing.

My 0.002 yuan,

F

[Bill M]

Miguel,

The last cannon you pictured is a Lantaka. In fact a crocodile version. Looks quite nice. can't tell from the quality of picture if it was made as a fighting cannon, or a trade piece.

I have some of these going back to the late 1500s to early 1600s, but though I have some of the "seahorse" ornamented, I don't have a crocodile.

Do you have any other pictures of it?

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Ed

Thank you for your thoughts.

An incorrect assumption is that Iron was not worked at an early date in China and that any barrel that is of iron would, necessarily, have to have been made in Europe. This is wrong as I discovered in conversations with various folks who have expertise in eastern technology.

The identification of these sorts of barrels remains an open question.

Hi Ed,

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, it looks like the Chinese started with a bamboo cannon (early 12th century), and not a metal one.

However, the Chinese quickly 'graduated' to a metal-barreled cannon by the late 12th century --

"Gunpower: Along with the silk and paper, gunpowder is another invention by Chinese and the Silk Road helped it spread to the west. The dating of gunpowder is as early as 850 A.D. ... The gunpowder used for military purpose was first recorded in 919 A.D. By the 11th century, explosive bombs filled with gunpowder and fired from catapults were introduced and used in China. The words "fire cannon", "rocket", "missile" and "fireball" appeared time and again in the official Song history as well as two other books written during the same period. The first detailed description of using "firing cannon" in warfare was in connection with a battle fought in 1126 when the Song army used it against the invading Nuchens. The so-called fire cannon was a tube made of bamboo filled with gunpowder which, when fired, threw a flaming missile towards the enemy ... According to a description of a battle scene in 1132, it took two persons to carry a "fire cannon" ...

"The early account of gunpowder in Europe was recorded by English philosopher Roger Bacon in the 13th century. One century later the Arabs used it to attack the Spanish town Baza and the very next year in 1326 Florence ordered the manufacturing of cannon and cannon balls. From Italy the making of gunpowder soon spread to other European countries, and by the 1350s it had become an effective weapon on the battlefield.

"Origin of Gun: The Chinese adapted their primitive catapults to eventually develop a true gun with a metal barrel, gunpowder and a projectile by the 12th century. It is believed that the first gun was found in the early 1970s at Pan-la-ch'eng-tzu village, Manchuria, and dated to around 1290 A.D."

The picture below are samples of the earliest cannons of ancient China.