ANYONE RECOGNISE THIS BLADE

David · 23rd October 2008, 03:46 AM

Well Alan, i understand you reasoning here, but it's more than the finish that makes me think Bali (or Lombok). The pamor pattern and execution look more Balinese to me and that single fuller reminds me of some i have seen on Balinese keris pedang. Also, while i have never seen hilt motifs quite like this one it doesn't seem to say Jawa to me. But of course, this is all just speculation.
I do believe that what we can say with a fair bit of certainty is that it is NOT a European blade or a dha and that it is from some part of Indonesia.

Royston · 23rd October 2008, 08:54 AM

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

It looks as though I got the approximate area correct if nothing else. I suppose I was expecting someone to come up with similar examples and tell me exactly what, where, date and name of maker.

The word naive springs to mind !!!!!

Fearn, I love your comment about biases. We all have our favourites.

Atlantia, Unfortunately the tang is not loose and I am somewhat reluctant to try heat to get it off.

Regards
Royston

A. G. Maisey · 23rd October 2008, 10:01 AM

David, my opinion is based not only upon pamor, nor upon finish, nor upon the handle style.

All these things could be Javanese or Balinese, or even Lombok. I don't think we could place them in Sumatera, or somewhere else in the Archipelago, but just on the appearance of the components, sure we could place them in several different places.

However, what we have is a definite European pattern in the blade. We know that it not at all unusual to find Javanese made blades, and even complete weapons that are interpretations of European blades and weapons.

We know that there was virtually no European influence in either Bali or Lombok prior to the early years of the 20th century; we know that until well into the 20th century Sumatera was mostly isolated towns separated by jungle. The other parts of what is now Indonesia were colonial outposts.

Only in Jawa was there a strong European presence, and the skilled craftsmen necessary to produce a weapon as refined as is this one.

Combine this European presence with the ability to produce, and this piece must come from Jawa, unless its elements point in different direction , and in this case they do not.

The hilt motif could perhaps be an attempted copy of a European motif also.

Rick · 25th October 2008, 10:59 PM

The handle expresses a bit of Chinese influence IMO, I see almost a Bat like figure in the carving .

25th October 2008, 10:59 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	The handle expresses a bit of Chinese influence IMO, I see almost a Bat like figure in the carving . Last edited by Rick; 25th October 2008 at 11:36 PM.

23rd October 2008, 03:46 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Well Alan, i understand you reasoning here, but it's more than the finish that makes me think Bali (or Lombok). The pamor pattern and execution look more Balinese to me and that single fuller reminds me of some i have seen on Balinese keris pedang. Also, while i have never seen hilt motifs quite like this one it doesn't seem to say Jawa to me. But of course, this is all just speculation. I do believe that what we can say with a fair bit of certainty is that it is NOT a European blade or a dha and that it is from some part of Indonesia.

23rd October 2008, 08:54 AM	#2
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Thanks to everyone for your replies. It looks as though I got the approximate area correct if nothing else. I suppose I was expecting someone to come up with similar examples and tell me exactly what, where, date and name of maker. The word naive springs to mind !!!!! Fearn, I love your comment about biases. We all have our favourites. Atlantia, Unfortunately the tang is not loose and I am somewhat reluctant to try heat to get it off. Regards Royston

23rd October 2008, 10:01 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	David, my opinion is based not only upon pamor, nor upon finish, nor upon the handle style. All these things could be Javanese or Balinese, or even Lombok. I don't think we could place them in Sumatera, or somewhere else in the Archipelago, but just on the appearance of the components, sure we could place them in several different places. However, what we have is a definite European pattern in the blade. We know that it not at all unusual to find Javanese made blades, and even complete weapons that are interpretations of European blades and weapons. We know that there was virtually no European influence in either Bali or Lombok prior to the early years of the 20th century; we know that until well into the 20th century Sumatera was mostly isolated towns separated by jungle. The other parts of what is now Indonesia were colonial outposts. Only in Jawa was there a strong European presence, and the skilled craftsmen necessary to produce a weapon as refined as is this one. Combine this European presence with the ability to produce, and this piece must come from Jawa, unless its elements point in different direction , and in this case they do not. The hilt motif could perhaps be an attempted copy of a European motif also.