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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi Tom,
You make excellent and valid points. I guess, that the object lesson, if there is one, is for future historians not to fall into the trap of assuming that just because tactical folders were popular at the start of the 21st century, they were the best weapon for SD and therefore they must chosen over and above other weapons. Rather, that's what people defaulted to, because better weapons were banned or too many obstacles were placed in the path to their ownership, as was the caase with navajas. The situation here in Australia is very similar to what you describe - I guess, we just follow US trends. Your superbly well made tactical folders, such as by CS and Benchmade adorn the display cases of our shops and sell in substantial numbers- Why? Because we have some of the toughest anti gun, sword and knife laws . And yet we also have fatal violence in the bigger cities in alarming numbers. Cheers Chris |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
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Hi Everybody,
I just got a couple of book recomended by Chris: "Navajas Antiguas - Las Mejores Piezas de Coleccion" . Terrific book and a real eye opener. It is in Spanish and English and easy to read. The modern navajas dont look anything like these. Also "La Navaja Espanola Antigua". This one is in Spanish and can't understand a word but the lots of pictures tell a story and it is full of facts and figures. I know someone who is Spanish and he has been helping me a little to translate. It is all like Chris said. Thanks mate. Best wishes Frank |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
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Hi Frank
Happy to see that you are finding those books worth your while. The one titled "Las Mejores Piezas de Coleccion" is the standard reference book for collectors and antiquarians. It is very useful for establishing the origin and approximate date of manufacture of navajas. I don't know if you noticed the large number of absolutely fearsome looking and large navajas without a blade lock; It tells us something about the enforcement of the anti-blade lock laws and also that most were nowhere as formidable weapons as we are told - Hey, what did all those fearless Barateros fight with? This is especially so, if we consider that by the mid 1800s the majority of the navajas in use in Spain had French origins and for most part these did not have locks (look at the French pages and what turns up on e-Bay). What I found even more interesting is that some time ago I came across an antique that had a ratcheting mechanical lock in the typical Spanish manner but the rear of the blade notch was filed back so that the knife would close under pressure on the blade. Presumably this modification was done so as to conform to the laws forbidding locks. Cheers Chris Last edited by Chris Evans; 23rd April 2005 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Picture does not show |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
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Chris
In your first post you said something about `Passata Sotto'. I couldn't see it in the book. What and wher is it and why is it bad. Best wishes Frank |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
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Any commentary on that cool bolster?
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#6 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi Frank,
A `Passata Sotto' (PS) is an Italian fencing term, going back to the rapier era and which E.D.Morton describes a stop hit (counter thrust to a thrust attack) in the low line (see picture). The whole body is dropped under the opponent's incoming blade and the left leg is thrown diagonally across the line of attack, to the executant's right, whilst supported on the ground with the left hand. It is considered as an extremely risky move and best deployed only against a purely thrusting sword. This is because: a) It calls for great commitment; b) recovery from the dropped position is very difficult; c) it is all too easy to misjudge the direction of the attack, or the attacker can relatively easily change the direction of the thrust and thus hit the defender; and d) if the opponent is using an edged sword and unless is instantly disabled, which is unlikely, he or she can execute a draw cut against the exposed neck and head, or even thrust into the equally exposed head/shoulder/back. These risks increases dramatically as the length of the blade shortens and for this reason it is seldom performed with modern fencing swords (old rapiers were much longer); With knives, the PS becomes unacceptably dangerous, especially on account of d) above. If facing an edgeless thrusting dagger it is marginally safer as the threat of a counter cut is non existent, but of course, the possibility of a counter thrust into the defender's exposed back and neck remains, as do the other risks listed. In the MdB a ridiculously complex and suicidally risky version is presented, as described and illustrated on pg18. I intentionally identified the core technique as a PS, to draw attention to that it was an adapted fencing move. It can be readily seen from the drawing how easy it would be for the upright attacker to execute a potentially fatal downward cut against the defender's exposed neck or even stab into his completely open neck, head, or back - And all this on top of the insane risks involved in falling down backwards, dropping the navaja onto the ground and then recovering so as to execute a PS, a difficult and overly risky move in its own right. Hope this helps Chris Last edited by Chris Evans; 29th April 2005 at 11:21 AM. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi Tom,
I presume that you are referring to that embossed bolster on the navaja with the modified lock. That was on a French navaja made for the Spanish market and constructed in the manner of the Southern Spanish design, including the ratchet lock. The bolsters on the Spanish design were made from sheet-metal, usually brass, and hammer beaten to conform to the shape of the horn handle. Its function was to provide some extra strength once the blade's pivot pin was riveted, much like what a washer would provide. In fact, the cheaper navajas had only a washer. The French decided to up the ante by embossing them - Little touches like these, and being cheaper, is what allowed their products to displace the Spanish made navajas in their own country. The absence of a full lock did not seem to bother the Spaniards much and that throws one hell of a question mark over their alleged propensity for fighting with navajas. Cheers Chris Last edited by Chris Evans; 29th April 2005 at 03:33 AM. |
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