Jambiya

Rick · 9th April 2005, 06:58 PM

Genuine amber can sometimes be very hard to determine according to my friend who is a jeweler and a gemologist . Sometimes the only way to find out is a destructive test (in your case) by determining the specific gravity of the material , ie removing and stripping the hilt .

The hot pin test OTOH will tell you if it is plastic or horn and possibly amber (depending on its state) ; If it smells like plastic it is plastic, if it smells like burning hair it is most likely horn , if it smells piney (can't find a better word right now) it may be amber .

derek · 10th April 2005, 12:03 AM

That's a nice jambiya. I've seen several like it in the antique shops in Dubai. I would certainly concur that it's from around Yemen/Oman. The grip looks like amber to me. Try this: rub it vigorously -- we're talking about the jambiya grip here

-- and smell it. Seriously! Does it have a scent?

-d

Jeff D · 10th April 2005, 03:54 AM

Thanks Mark for the additional photos. I personally cannot tell if this is amber or giraffe horn , but Elgood doesn't mention amber as a material in these daggers . He does quote this; " giraffe horn, which has a rich translucent amber colour and was imported from East Africa..." (pg 93 The Arms and Armour of Arabia). Unfortunately he does not have any colour photos of it.
Does anybody have any colour photos or references of either of these two materials (no pressure Jim

).
In any event your dagger is a keeper!!!

Jeff

Aurangzeb · 10th April 2005, 01:19 PM

Hi Derek!

I did rub the hilt like you told me and it smells woodsy or outdoorsy,loss of words smells odd.To me it seems to heavy and hard to be horn and does not show any of the fibers of horn.

Thanks for the help!

tom hyle · 10th April 2005, 04:30 PM

AFAIK there is no such substance as giraffe horn. No one has ever meaningfully (ie with evidence I can check and anylyze) anwered me against this, and I'd sure appreciate it if anyone who can, will. Reading about giraffes I find they have a bone surounded by skin; no keratenacious horn on their heads. What is the substance usually called giraffe horn? Don't know. Giraffe bone is very fine-grained and nice, but otherwise ordinary bone, and much like camel bone. Maybe the horn of a different, less penis shaped animal? Amber can, interestingly, and this has been known for centuries if not millenia, be disolved in hot oil and shaped; many large amber pieces have been made this way, and I think, that done properly and traditionally, with the "right" natural oil, temp. etc. it is not detectible, at least by "ordinary means" from nonreconstituted amber (reconstituted amber on the market now is in a plastic (epoxide?) matrix, and quite different, BTW); same colour, smell, etc. Amber has a sweet acidic smell you will never forget, often, if you've a sensitive nose, I guess, even when just sitting around. Also, it is said to have some kind of activity in regards to static electricity that is different from horn. I don't know; another subject that has never propelled me to experiment; rub it on you cat and see if it sticks to the wall

just kidding, but truly, there is such a thing; knowing of it you could look it up. One gets comfortable weaing Death, and his traditional seats are usually quite effective, but one does not want to get too comfortable or unaware; real fighters often walk around with their hand resting on hilt, and say they have to use that hand, and they're feeling Spidey sense (almost always for real fighters in some degree; part of what makes you a real fighter instead of a real dead guy), the other one will often just drift over to "cover" the dagger situation; to protect it and be ready to use it (this may present some problems in AfrAsian Islam, with its customs around the left hand; I haven't hung out with a lot of Arabs and Berbers, and the Arabs I have known dressed like any other American; "no edge, no edge; you've got no knife, have you?"......

Michael Blalock · 13th April 2005, 12:10 PM

Is it possible this jambiya handle is agate and not amber? I have read that agate is used in Yemen these days. Amber is very light. When I lived in Yemen in the 60's the good Jambiyas were all Rhino horn but everyone described them as Giraffe horn. The cheap ones were buffalo horn. I never saw a pale handle like the amber handle back them. The really nice rhino handles were translucent but still had an earthy brown color.

Conogre · 16th April 2005, 03:53 AM

To address two issues, 1) Tom there very deffiniteiy IS a "giraffe horn" and it's very similar to rhinocerous horn in being composed of a compacted hair-like substance as opposed to most other forms of "horn" (I'm more familiar with it on live animals than as weapon hilts) and is reputed to be held in high esteem for the same reason, ie, it swells slightly when wet, making it almost adhere to the hand rather than becomming slippery and hard to hang on to.
As to the yellow color of this hilt, I suspect that it's plastic, having seen several dozen pieces only a couple of years ago that were all imported from Morocco in a single container by an antique dealer here in Florida that appeared nearly identical.......they were of both styles, the one similar to yours and the traditional elongated khoumiya style as well, all with nice, user blades.
Keep in mind that plastic does not necessarily have the same cheap connotation that we in the US commonly associate with it, particularly in regions where humidity, arridness and destructive insects are a factor.....just recently I aquired that Jambiya with the Saudi royal insignia on it with the belt inset with a white plastic immitation patent leather and it was anything but an inferior piece.
Mike

13th April 2005, 12:10 PM	#6
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	Amber jambiya Is it possible this jambiya handle is agate and not amber? I have read that agate is used in Yemen these days. Amber is very light. When I lived in Yemen in the 60's the good Jambiyas were all Rhino horn but everyone described them as Giraffe horn. The cheap ones were buffalo horn. I never saw a pale handle like the amber handle back them. The really nice rhino handles were translucent but still had an earthy brown color.

9th April 2005, 06:58 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Genuine amber can sometimes be very hard to determine according to my friend who is a jeweler and a gemologist . Sometimes the only way to find out is a destructive test (in your case) by determining the specific gravity of the material , ie removing and stripping the hilt . The hot pin test OTOH will tell you if it is plastic or horn and possibly amber (depending on its state) ; If it smells like plastic it is plastic, if it smells like burning hair it is most likely horn , if it smells piney (can't find a better word right now) it may be amber .

10th April 2005, 12:03 AM	#2
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	That's a nice jambiya. I've seen several like it in the antique shops in Dubai. I would certainly concur that it's from around Yemen/Oman. The grip looks like amber to me. Try this: rub it vigorously -- we're talking about the jambiya grip here -- and smell it. Seriously! Does it have a scent? -d

10th April 2005, 03:54 AM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Thanks Mark for the additional photos. I personally cannot tell if this is amber or giraffe horn , but Elgood doesn't mention amber as a material in these daggers . He does quote this; " giraffe horn, which has a rich translucent amber colour and was imported from East Africa..." (pg 93 The Arms and Armour of Arabia). Unfortunately he does not have any colour photos of it. Does anybody have any colour photos or references of either of these two materials (no pressure Jim ). In any event your dagger is a keeper!!! Jeff

10th April 2005, 01:19 PM	#4
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi Derek! I did rub the hilt like you told me and it smells woodsy or outdoorsy,loss of words smells odd.To me it seems to heavy and hard to be horn and does not show any of the fibers of horn. Thanks for the help!

10th April 2005, 04:30 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	AFAIK there is no such substance as giraffe horn. No one has ever meaningfully (ie with evidence I can check and anylyze) anwered me against this, and I'd sure appreciate it if anyone who can, will. Reading about giraffes I find they have a bone surounded by skin; no keratenacious horn on their heads. What is the substance usually called giraffe horn? Don't know. Giraffe bone is very fine-grained and nice, but otherwise ordinary bone, and much like camel bone. Maybe the horn of a different, less penis shaped animal? Amber can, interestingly, and this has been known for centuries if not millenia, be disolved in hot oil and shaped; many large amber pieces have been made this way, and I think, that done properly and traditionally, with the "right" natural oil, temp. etc. it is not detectible, at least by "ordinary means" from nonreconstituted amber (reconstituted amber on the market now is in a plastic (epoxide?) matrix, and quite different, BTW); same colour, smell, etc. Amber has a sweet acidic smell you will never forget, often, if you've a sensitive nose, I guess, even when just sitting around. Also, it is said to have some kind of activity in regards to static electricity that is different from horn. I don't know; another subject that has never propelled me to experiment; rub it on you cat and see if it sticks to the wall just kidding, but truly, there is such a thing; knowing of it you could look it up. One gets comfortable weaing Death, and his traditional seats are usually quite effective, but one does not want to get too comfortable or unaware; real fighters often walk around with their hand resting on hilt, and say they have to use that hand, and they're feeling Spidey sense (almost always for real fighters in some degree; part of what makes you a real fighter instead of a real dead guy), the other one will often just drift over to "cover" the dagger situation; to protect it and be ready to use it (this may present some problems in AfrAsian Islam, with its customs around the left hand; I haven't hung out with a lot of Arabs and Berbers, and the Arabs I have known dressed like any other American; "no edge, no edge; you've got no knife, have you?"......

16th April 2005, 03:53 AM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	To address two issues, 1) Tom there very deffiniteiy IS a "giraffe horn" and it's very similar to rhinocerous horn in being composed of a compacted hair-like substance as opposed to most other forms of "horn" (I'm more familiar with it on live animals than as weapon hilts) and is reputed to be held in high esteem for the same reason, ie, it swells slightly when wet, making it almost adhere to the hand rather than becomming slippery and hard to hang on to. As to the yellow color of this hilt, I suspect that it's plastic, having seen several dozen pieces only a couple of years ago that were all imported from Morocco in a single container by an antique dealer here in Florida that appeared nearly identical.......they were of both styles, the one similar to yours and the traditional elongated khoumiya style as well, all with nice, user blades. Keep in mind that plastic does not necessarily have the same cheap connotation that we in the US commonly associate with it, particularly in regions where humidity, arridness and destructive insects are a factor.....just recently I aquired that Jambiya with the Saudi royal insignia on it with the belt inset with a white plastic immitation patent leather and it was anything but an inferior piece. Mike