Spanish Rapiers, a Bilbo FYC.

Gonzalo G · 8th October 2008, 11:14 AM

Apart from both Sahagún, father and son, respectively Alonso de Sahagún or Sahagun el Viejo, and Luis de Sahagún, there was another Sahagún, Alonso de Sahagún el Jóven. All of them swordsmiths from Toledo. And all of them had a personal marking to identify their swords, apart from the inscription of their names. I don´t have registers of other Sahagún´s. It must be taken on account that there was also a "Sahagún School" they left for the posterity, so you can find swords from the Sahagún School, formally recognized as that by the scholars on this subject. For more references, please see this document from German Dueñas Beraiz, published in Gladius magazine:

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/inde...viewFile/42/43

The markings of 99 swordsmiths form Toledo, including the Sahagún´s, can be seen in:

Claudio del Fraxno y Joaquín de Bouligny
Memoria Sobre la Teoría y Fabricación del Acero en General y de su Aplicación a las Armas Blancas,
Segovia, Imprenta de D. Eduardo Baeza,
1850

I agree with Jim. The blade seems not to be from those swordsmiths. But a very good piece anyway. Yes, to envy, Gene. Probably form Solingen.
My best regards

Gonzalo

fernando · 13th October 2008, 01:09 AM

Good material Gonzalo; thanks for sharing.
I've saved it.
Fernando

celtan · 13th October 2008, 03:17 AM

So did I!
Muchas gracias
Manolo

Atlantia · 13th October 2008, 04:41 PM

Hi Gonzalo,
Thanks for posting. I'm going to have to try and muddle through with babelfish! ;-)
Any paragraphs you think are particularly relevant to my sword?

Brilliant material.
:-)
Thanks
Gene

Atlantia · 11th November 2008, 06:06 PM

Just a BIG ole BUMP to see if anyone else has had any ideas or any new information has come to light?

:-)

celtan · 13th November 2008, 01:47 AM

There's currently one very similar on EBay, with different grips and shell-guard art. Auction ended sans sale, item 120332175778

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Just a BIG ole BUMP to see if anyone else has had any ideas or any new information has come to light?

:-)

Gonzalo G · 13th November 2008, 06:01 AM

Gene, I apologize for not seeing your question before. I have the bad habit of not subscribing to the threads, as I post just a little, and I thought the thread was inactive. About the references: from the Gladius article, they refer to the style and characteristics of the Sahagun´s rapiers. Please traslate:

pag. 239, last two paragraphs
pag. 240, first two paragraphs (the mention of the sword found un Sueden, is refered to a work from Sahagun)
pag. 241, second paragraph

The marks or stamps form the toledan swordsmiths, on the book, appear in the Plate 2, at the end of the book.
Regards

Gonzalo

Atlantia · 13th November 2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

There's currently one very similar on EBay, with different grips and shell-guard art. Auction ended sans sale, item 120332175778

Well, thats rather exciting!!!
Thanks Manuel!!!
I cant resist a comparison shot:

It's like my rapier has a skinny sister!! And she's a babe ;-)

length is about the same, its clearly the same 'family' of sword. Very thin duelling blade?

Comments anyone?

8th October 2008, 11:14 AM	#1
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Apart from both Sahagún, father and son, respectively Alonso de Sahagún or Sahagun el Viejo, and Luis de Sahagún, there was another Sahagún, Alonso de Sahagún el Jóven. All of them swordsmiths from Toledo. And all of them had a personal marking to identify their swords, apart from the inscription of their names. I don´t have registers of other Sahagún´s. It must be taken on account that there was also a "Sahagún School" they left for the posterity, so you can find swords from the Sahagún School, formally recognized as that by the scholars on this subject. For more references, please see this document from German Dueñas Beraiz, published in Gladius magazine: http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/inde...viewFile/42/43 The markings of 99 swordsmiths form Toledo, including the Sahagún´s, can be seen in: Claudio del Fraxno y Joaquín de Bouligny Memoria Sobre la Teoría y Fabricación del Acero en General y de su Aplicación a las Armas Blancas, Segovia, Imprenta de D. Eduardo Baeza, 1850 I agree with Jim. The blade seems not to be from those swordsmiths. But a very good piece anyway. Yes, to envy, Gene. Probably form Solingen. My best regards Gonzalo

13th October 2008, 01:09 AM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Good material Gonzalo; thanks for sharing. I've saved it. Fernando

13th October 2008, 03:17 AM	#3
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	So did I! Muchas gracias Manolo

13th October 2008, 04:41 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Gonzalo, Thanks for posting. I'm going to have to try and muddle through with babelfish! ;-) Any paragraphs you think are particularly relevant to my sword? Brilliant material. :-) Thanks Gene

11th November 2008, 06:06 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Just a BIG ole BUMP to see if anyone else has had any ideas or any new information has come to light? :-)

13th November 2008, 06:01 AM	#7
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	Gene, I apologize for not seeing your question before. I have the bad habit of not subscribing to the threads, as I post just a little, and I thought the thread was inactive. About the references: from the Gladius article, they refer to the style and characteristics of the Sahagun´s rapiers. Please traslate: pag. 239, last two paragraphs pag. 240, first two paragraphs (the mention of the sword found un Sueden, is refered to a work from Sahagun) pag. 241, second paragraph The marks or stamps form the toledan swordsmiths, on the book, appear in the Plate 2, at the end of the book. Regards Gonzalo