Strange dagger ... can someone ID?

Jim McDougall · 3rd October 2008, 05:25 AM

Hi Fernando,
I havent really got more to add, but just wanted to say I keep getting drawn back to this piece simply because it has such outstanding charisma! This is a classic example of beautiful 18th century patination which contrasts perfectly with aged bone and the inset brass discs. In my mind there is little to compare to pieces like this, and I would leave it as is...aside from trying to repair that chipped bone grip.

I have to admit, I was thinking of the same thing as you on the ring, I guess thinking of those Central American dirks with a ring near the guard (in Levine, but dont have the reference at the moment).

Fernando, I think you are rapidly advancing on Rainhardts position in outstanding range in collecting!!!

Thank you so much for always so openly sharing your wonderful conquests!!

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 3rd October 2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... I would leave it as is ...

I certainly will, Jim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... I think you are rapidly advancing on Rainhardts position in outstanding range in collecting ...

Don't make fun of the poor

As a punishment, i will soon post a couple more (last) humble pieces.

Fernando

fernando · 3rd October 2008, 06:09 PM

Hi Gene,
I perfectly understand your theory about the ring being a device for an intended use.
But to give you an idea ... and talking in inches.
Knife (dagger) total length is about 9 1/2". The ring interior measures between 3/8" and 1/2"., so impossible to penetrate with a finger. Besides, as it is positioned almost at the middle of the piece, so distant from the handle body, all you could do, grip wise, would be to extend your index finger and place it 'upon' the ring circumference, more in a 'directive' attitude than in a 'holding' one. I don't say this wouldn't serve the sugested purpose, but i doubt it. I am more inclined to consider, under influence of the three brass dots, that both details could be some kind of traditional or ritual (hardly free)decoration.
It is worthy of note, the ring not appearing to be an assessor to the handle, but having its own presence.
If it weren't for the false edge in half of the blade back, denoting this is more a stabbing 'punal' than a current use knife, we could wonder about the ring being a tool device, like for bending or extracting something, but it appears not to be the case.
All yours,
Fernando

3rd October 2008, 05:25 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Fernando, I havent really got more to add, but just wanted to say I keep getting drawn back to this piece simply because it has such outstanding charisma! This is a classic example of beautiful 18th century patination which contrasts perfectly with aged bone and the inset brass discs. In my mind there is little to compare to pieces like this, and I would leave it as is...aside from trying to repair that chipped bone grip. I have to admit, I was thinking of the same thing as you on the ring, I guess thinking of those Central American dirks with a ring near the guard (in Levine, but dont have the reference at the moment). Fernando, I think you are rapidly advancing on Rainhardts position in outstanding range in collecting!!! Thank you so much for always so openly sharing your wonderful conquests!! All the best, Jim

3rd October 2008, 06:09 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Gene, I perfectly understand your theory about the ring being a device for an intended use. But to give you an idea ... and talking in inches. Knife (dagger) total length is about 9 1/2". The ring interior measures between 3/8" and 1/2"., so impossible to penetrate with a finger. Besides, as it is positioned almost at the middle of the piece, so distant from the handle body, all you could do, grip wise, would be to extend your index finger and place it 'upon' the ring circumference, more in a 'directive' attitude than in a 'holding' one. I don't say this wouldn't serve the sugested purpose, but i doubt it. I am more inclined to consider, under influence of the three brass dots, that both details could be some kind of traditional or ritual (hardly free)decoration. It is worthy of note, the ring not appearing to be an assessor to the handle, but having its own presence. If it weren't for the false edge in half of the blade back, denoting this is more a stabbing 'punal' than a current use knife, we could wonder about the ring being a tool device, like for bending or extracting something, but it appears not to be the case. All yours, Fernando