Found it in Maui

A. G. Maisey · 2nd October 2008, 10:33 PM

These two keris are an assembly of some nice, but unrelated, parts.

The ivory hilt is Sumenep, Madura, the blade on that hilt is a very ordinary old blade that has been altered to make it more attractive for sale, the mendak, is low grade pasar quality, the wrongko is Balinese, and appears to be quite respectable.

The kocet-kocetan hilt appears to be well carved, but it is fitted with a pendongkok, probably Peninsula, the blade on this hilt may, or may not be Balinese, I cannot say without handling it, in any case, its a nice older blade, the wrongko for this keris looks as if it could be good; if the atasan (top cross piece) is ebony, that combined with the very nice timoho gandar, makes it a good wrongko.

These are married pieces, my guess is that they were put together by a dealer or collector outside of Indonesia---this type of marriage is exceedingly rare in Indonesia. However, as I have said, a collection of quite decent pieces that could be redistributed when the opportunity occurs to create good, genuine keris. The only real dud is the blade that somebody took the Makita to.

kino · 3rd October 2008, 04:30 AM

Howzit Spunjer,

I get chicken skin now. Maybe my anting-anting will protect me. Went to the Bishop Museum but did not see any Moro weapons. A section was closed off due to construction. They get plenny Oceanic clubs, spears and shields.
Antique Alley get choke things for sale but no Moro sandata. Kahuku store get 2 touristy Kris'.

David, the Madurese hilted Keris, scabbard doesn't fit well.

Alan, thanks for the info. I knew they had some age to them, but not too keen on spotting quality.

An additional photo of the blade with the holes. It seems to be spltting apart.

asomotif · 3rd October 2008, 10:02 PM

The Kocetan hilt is very nice and that one has a splendid pamor too.

Worth to get a better (balinese) pendogkok / selut

And the madurese hilt is very nice too as a single piece on a small stand

Best regards,
Willem

kulbuntet · 8th October 2008, 11:57 PM

Bali Blade looks great. dwi warna pamor? Maybe little bit small, Hindu javanese Empu?

David · 9th October 2008, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

Bali Blade looks great. dwi warna pamor? Maybe little bit small, Hindu javanese Empu?

Hard to catch up with you Kulbuntet. You seem omnipresent, you appear to be posting everywhere at once.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.
I have at least one small Bali keris (less than 33 cm.). I don't think that there is any Javanese influence in the size though. Bali keris are generally larger than Javanese, but exceptions always exist.

kulbuntet · 9th October 2008, 05:39 PM

Hi David,
Thank you for welcoming me. I enjoy being on this forum.

A friend of me told me that since the arival of the islam on Java, alot of hindu Javanese people left for bali and lombok taking their empu with them. The Hindu Javanese emupu were doeing their thing on bali, making bali keris with javanese style. My friend says he can tel the difrence between A keris made by al hindu bali empoe and a hindu javanese empu, by looking at the soshoran and gonjo. The hindu javanese seens to be thinner and and less robust than the hindu bali ones. iff i look at kerisses with a bali style willah and sarong within this perspecif i see what he means, and it sound logical.

btw sorry for my bad writen englisch.. i have a good excuse..im Dutch

A. G. Maisey · 9th October 2008, 11:10 PM

Differentiation of Balinese and Javanese blades is not difficult, but I would leave the "Hindu" out of it.

Hindu Javanese refers to Majapahit and before, that is pre-1525 (nominal date).

Almost 500 years ago.

Let's get fair dinkum.

3rd October 2008, 04:30 AM	#2
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,018	Howzit Spunjer, I get chicken skin now. Maybe my anting-anting will protect me. Went to the Bishop Museum but did not see any Moro weapons. A section was closed off due to construction. They get plenny Oceanic clubs, spears and shields. Antique Alley get choke things for sale but no Moro sandata. Kahuku store get 2 touristy Kris'. David, the Madurese hilted Keris, scabbard doesn't fit well. Alan, thanks for the info. I knew they had some age to them, but not too keen on spotting quality. An additional photo of the blade with the holes. It seems to be spltting apart. Attached Images

2nd October 2008, 10:33 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	These two keris are an assembly of some nice, but unrelated, parts. The ivory hilt is Sumenep, Madura, the blade on that hilt is a very ordinary old blade that has been altered to make it more attractive for sale, the mendak, is low grade pasar quality, the wrongko is Balinese, and appears to be quite respectable. The kocet-kocetan hilt appears to be well carved, but it is fitted with a pendongkok, probably Peninsula, the blade on this hilt may, or may not be Balinese, I cannot say without handling it, in any case, its a nice older blade, the wrongko for this keris looks as if it could be good; if the atasan (top cross piece) is ebony, that combined with the very nice timoho gandar, makes it a good wrongko. These are married pieces, my guess is that they were put together by a dealer or collector outside of Indonesia---this type of marriage is exceedingly rare in Indonesia. However, as I have said, a collection of quite decent pieces that could be redistributed when the opportunity occurs to create good, genuine keris. The only real dud is the blade that somebody took the Makita to.

3rd October 2008, 10:02 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	The Kocetan hilt is very nice and that one has a splendid pamor too. Worth to get a better (balinese) pendogkok / selut And the madurese hilt is very nice too as a single piece on a small stand Best regards, Willem

8th October 2008, 11:57 PM	#4
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Bali Blade looks great. dwi warna pamor? Maybe little bit small, Hindu javanese Empu?

9th October 2008, 05:39 PM	#6
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Hi David, Thank you for welcoming me. I enjoy being on this forum. A friend of me told me that since the arival of the islam on Java, alot of hindu Javanese people left for bali and lombok taking their empu with them. The Hindu Javanese emupu were doeing their thing on bali, making bali keris with javanese style. My friend says he can tel the difrence between A keris made by al hindu bali empoe and a hindu javanese empu, by looking at the soshoran and gonjo. The hindu javanese seens to be thinner and and less robust than the hindu bali ones. iff i look at kerisses with a bali style willah and sarong within this perspecif i see what he means, and it sound logical. btw sorry for my bad writen englisch.. i have a good excuse..im Dutch

9th October 2008, 11:10 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Differentiation of Balinese and Javanese blades is not difficult, but I would leave the "Hindu" out of it. Hindu Javanese refers to Majapahit and before, that is pre-1525 (nominal date). Almost 500 years ago. Let's get fair dinkum.