keris blade for comment.

Rick · 8th April 2005, 05:53 PM

Hi BSM ,
My two cents worth of advice to you would be to treat and gently remove the rust . As for trying different and untraditional chemicals on a Jawa keris ; if I were you I would ascertain the age , quality , and value (not necessarily monetary) of such a blade before undertaking such a project . There are places that you can send the blade to have a traditional staining job done .

Smashy's piece is a Bali keris , smooth ; but your Jawa blade is likely rough . Please try to remember that these are cultural artifacts and one's responsibility as a collector is to "First do no harm" and as cultural artifacts they are due a certain amount of respect .

Now if you know for a fact that this blade of yours is a piece made to sell to the Western market and it is a piece of crap to boot then that may change things ; but PLEASE look at the ruined blade at the top of this page . That , to the best of my knowledge , is a 450 year old blade , it belongs to me and every time I look at it a great sadness comes over me for the desecration it has endured .

tom hyle · 9th April 2005, 06:31 AM

Again, as I said about the disintegrated one; that may be true; it may be over etched, but I'm not sure (have you specific knowledge?) why you think that wasn't done within its native setting? I have seen Java k(e)ris so overwashed and moreso many times, and pretty usually ID'd (not usually by k[e]ris sellers, as I don't much buy k[e]ris) as traditionally washed, just for many years, and perhaps "too many" (for however we can identify that) times.

capt.smash · 9th April 2005, 06:44 PM

HI BSMStar

show some pics of the blade or PM me some and we can discuss what to do

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 01:23 PM

Hi All,

Let me assure you (and I guess I did not explain myself well

) that I would not attempt to etch and stain a "good" blade.

Rick, I fully agree with you. But let me ask a question... If the Javanese sell a keris in plastic dress (yes the sheath and hilt are plastic) to the "tourist" market, it is rusty and has no warangan stain left, do they consider it to be junk?

To me, the blade may be early 20c or late 19c, but I am not an expert.

I have no intention to grind, sand or polish the blade. I just want to remove the rust and restain it. As I have stated before, less is more... and I have etched my share of iron meteorites and I have not lost one yet

The only question in my mind is the staining... I may end up with a totally black blade (but that would be an improvement over its current condition) of course I will stain it slowly and stop the process if I need to (etching I have done, staining is a new thing for me with a keris). I do not foresee damaging the blade in any way; the stain can be removed by a proper acid etch again. Then I would have a clean shiny blade that would need to be properly stained.

I will post pictures as my schedule allows.

FYI, LabanTayo has seen this keris.

Rick · 11th April 2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSMStar

Hi All,

Let me assure you (and I guess I did not explain myself well

) that I would not attempt to etch and stain a "good" blade.

Rick, I fully agree with you. But let me ask a question... If the Javanese sell a keris in plastic dress (yes the sheath and hilt are plastic) to the "tourist" market, it is rusty and has no warangan stain left, do they consider it to be junk?

To me, the blade may be early 20c or late 19c, but I am not an expert.

I have no intention to grind, sand or polish the blade. I just want to remove the rust and restain it. As I have stated before, less is more... and I have etched my share of iron meteorites and I have not lost one yet

The only question in my mind is the staining... I may end up with a totally black blade (but that would be an improvement over its current condition) of course I will stain it slowly and stop the process if I need to (etching I have done, staining is a new thing for me with a keris). I do not foresee damaging the blade in any way; the stain can be removed by a proper acid etch again. Then I would have a clean shiny blade that would need to be properly stained.

I will post pictures as my schedule allows.

FYI, LabanTayo has seen this keris.

Hi BSMstar , from your description it sounds like a good candidate for an experiment in the adventures of staining .

I tend to over dramatize when it comes to altering an original piece .
I also tend to apply this warning as a stock answer just for the sake of consistency .

Please pardon any offense my earlier reply to you may have caused .

I am sure that you will do no harm .

Looking forward to watching the process as you report .

Rick

tom hyle · 11th April 2005, 05:47 PM

BTW, my sentence structure was a bit complex, but it was Rick's example I've seen as bad as and worse than many times; the other one, the one you could read through is a particularly badly-off example though; much worse than Rick's, IMHO

The poor thing......

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi BSMstar , from your description it sounds like a good candidate for an experiment in the adventures of staining .

I tend to over dramatize when it comes to altering an original piece .
I also tend to apply this warning as a stock answer just for the sake of consistency .

Please pardon any offense my earlier reply to you may have caused .

I am sure that you will do no harm .

Looking forward to watching the process as you report .

Rick

Hi Rick!

It is very difficult to cause offense to me... and no pardon need, no offense taken. You are correct to remind and warn us of what we are about to under take (and not to do so lightly). I am just a student of life like everyone else... But, you have my permission to beat me in public if I ever do anything to a keris, the likes of what was done to the keris in the pictures we have shown!!! (My wife will gladly help... btw, she doesn't need a reason, she would just be glad to help anyway, just let her know when to show up).

I hope the only modification that occurs is the appearance of the keris being stained. Otherwise, visually there should be no other changes. I will start another thread when I gather all the materials and I am ready to start. I think LabanTayo wants to observe if he can swing it.

Captain... I am interested in your warangan or staining process, anything special to not have the nickel blacken? Extra steps?

nechesh · 11th April 2005, 08:21 PM

Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html
Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Again, as I said about the disintegrated one; that may be true; it may be over etched, but I'm not sure (have you specific knowledge?) why you think that wasn't done within its native setting? I have seen Java k(e)ris so overwashed and moreso many times, and pretty usually ID'd (not usually by k[e]ris sellers, as I don't much buy k[e]ris) as traditionally washed, just for many years, and perhaps "too many" (for however we can identify that) times.

Hi Tom,

This picture came out of Java. That is why I suspected it was done on purpose to "age" the blade. I believe it is a newly made blade of "low" quality... but it did not deserve to be treated like that (I am sure with the intent to push it off as an old blade if it worked

).

BSMStar · 11th April 2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi BSM ,
PLEASE look at the ruined blade at the top of this page . That , to the best of my knowledge , is a 450 year old blade , it belongs to me and every time I look at it a great sadness comes over me for the desecration it has endured .

Hi Rick,

Remember my thread on the possible Pajajaran keris? It's likely to be 600 to 800 years old. I'll share a towel with you.

I have no intention to allow this to happen to even a "junker" keris. If it is a keris worth saving, it is an object worth respecting... and to not allow that kind of damage to occur by my action. I am confident in what I can do... but the stain.

9th April 2005, 06:31 AM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Again, as I said about the disintegrated one; that may be true; it may be over etched, but I'm not sure (have you specific knowledge?) why you think that wasn't done within its native setting? I have seen Java k(e)ris so overwashed and moreso many times, and pretty usually ID'd (not usually by k[e]ris sellers, as I don't much buy k[e]ris) as traditionally washed, just for many years, and perhaps "too many" (for however we can identify that) times. Last edited by tom hyle; 9th April 2005 at 06:56 AM. Reason: left out a question mark

8th April 2005, 05:53 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Hi BSM , My two cents worth of advice to you would be to treat and gently remove the rust . As for trying different and untraditional chemicals on a Jawa keris ; if I were you I would ascertain the age , quality , and value (not necessarily monetary) of such a blade before undertaking such a project . There are places that you can send the blade to have a traditional staining job done . Smashy's piece is a Bali keris , smooth ; but your Jawa blade is likely rough . Please try to remember that these are cultural artifacts and one's responsibility as a collector is to "First do no harm" and as cultural artifacts they are due a certain amount of respect . Now if you know for a fact that this blade of yours is a piece made to sell to the Western market and it is a piece of crap to boot then that may change things ; but PLEASE look at the ruined blade at the top of this page . That , to the best of my knowledge , is a 450 year old blade , it belongs to me and every time I look at it a great sadness comes over me for the desecration it has endured .

9th April 2005, 06:44 PM	#3
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	HI BSMStar show some pics of the blade or PM me some and we can discuss what to do

11th April 2005, 01:23 PM	#4
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hi All, Let me assure you (and I guess I did not explain myself well ) that I would not attempt to etch and stain a "good" blade. Rick, I fully agree with you. But let me ask a question... If the Javanese sell a keris in plastic dress (yes the sheath and hilt are plastic) to the "tourist" market, it is rusty and has no warangan stain left, do they consider it to be junk? To me, the blade may be early 20c or late 19c, but I am not an expert. I have no intention to grind, sand or polish the blade. I just want to remove the rust and restain it. As I have stated before, less is more... and I have etched my share of iron meteorites and I have not lost one yet The only question in my mind is the staining... I may end up with a totally black blade (but that would be an improvement over its current condition) of course I will stain it slowly and stop the process if I need to (etching I have done, staining is a new thing for me with a keris). I do not foresee damaging the blade in any way; the stain can be removed by a proper acid etch again. Then I would have a clean shiny blade that would need to be properly stained. I will post pictures as my schedule allows. FYI, LabanTayo has seen this keris.

11th April 2005, 05:47 PM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, my sentence structure was a bit complex, but it was Rick's example I've seen as bad as and worse than many times; the other one, the one you could read through is a particularly badly-off example though; much worse than Rick's, IMHO The poor thing......

11th April 2005, 08:21 PM	#8
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Wayne, have you checked out this past thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000717.html Wong Desa gives a recommendation of method that you might like to try. I have used it myself with fairly good results. My suggestion would be to make sure that all the water you use is distilled and the air temperature is also an important factor. I seem to have given some people the impression that i don't believe we should try ti improve keris, just preserve. This could not be further from the truth.