A working bolo for your comments

tom hyle · 8th April 2005, 04:09 AM

Nice. The sword is no doubt pleased. This style is a "cut point" version of another syle; the sweep and taper of the blade are very typical, and make sense only within the paradigm of the original, pointed version. This is not to say this is an altered blade, but more likely a blade originally made in a shape which is an altered version of an other, older shape, if you follow me; I'm sorry, but I have no good word for this type of sword when it has the point; I think Therion called a similar one a balasiong or like that. Anyway, this making of a tipless, theoretically/legalistically noncombative version, of swords is an European custom, and common in former Spainish colonies. In other words, the tip is made that way as a statement of nonviolent intent.
I think you're probably OK with the epoxy, but I'll suggest for future repairers that the Luzon cutlers not uncommonly fill a horn cavity at the butt with a wooden cone. Ooh! I knew I was gonna say something else; there's a thread, I think towards the end days of the old forum, where some member or members posted pics and advice about weaving split rattan-skin bindings

I tend to think this particular variation on the hoof shaped pommel is distinctly 20th c.; maybe even post wwII? Anyone got any better input on that?

Ian · 8th April 2005, 01:54 PM

Tom:

I think this style of hilt may date back at least to the late 19th C., but it is certainly more prevalent post-WWII. I apprciate your thoughts about the cut point, and a European/Spanish influence makes a lot of sense. The original blade shape may have been called a matulis (= "pointy" in Tagalog) -- balasiong is a southern Philippines term, I believe, and has no connection to the more familiar balisong.

On the question of rattan bindings, I have been looking for a "how to" source for some time. My favorite style of wrap is that used by the Igorot tribes -- it seems sturdier and more durable than the work of other tribal groups. Igorot basketry is high quality too.

Ian.

fearn · 8th April 2005, 07:16 PM

So far as the lashings/bindings go, I have yet to find a perfect reference, but the simpler bindings sometimes turn up in books on knotmaking. I would check the local bookstore. Knotmaking books are usually in the sports section under boating, at least in the big US stores like Barnes and Noble or Borders.

Let me know if you find a better source!

Fearn

tom hyle · 9th April 2005, 06:36 AM

What challenges me is getting the stuff to keep laying flat, and that's where knot patterns learned from cord don't help, I guess. I guess it's partly a matter of wetted/green pliability, and maybe narrower strips may be easier to keep flat through the side-winding than would wide ones. What of basket books? I haven't checked; just some thoughts.

Ferguson · 9th April 2005, 11:14 AM

Searching the old forum came up with the book "Creative Ropecraft". I've ordered a used copy from Amazon.com. Also ordered some 11/64" flat/oval reed from here: http://www.royalwoodltd.com/cat05-06r.htm

We'll see how it goes. Thanks for all of your help guys.

Steve

Rick · 9th April 2005, 04:17 PM

It might be helpful when using the wet method to tightly bind the wrapping itself during the drying process so that as it dries and shrinks it is kept flat .

I would guess that this weaving was originally done with green rattan strips and I don't know if the same effect could be obtained by using re-wetted rattan .

tom hyle · 10th April 2005, 05:03 AM

A layer of some kind of temporary over-binding to make it lay flat while drying may be a good idea; I use it sometimes when leather-binding a wooden sheath. There's something about rattan not reacting to water as leather does; it seems real important, but I can't remember what it is.....

8th April 2005, 04:09 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	babble and some vague advice Nice. The sword is no doubt pleased. This style is a "cut point" version of another syle; the sweep and taper of the blade are very typical, and make sense only within the paradigm of the original, pointed version. This is not to say this is an altered blade, but more likely a blade originally made in a shape which is an altered version of an other, older shape, if you follow me; I'm sorry, but I have no good word for this type of sword when it has the point; I think Therion called a similar one a balasiong or like that. Anyway, this making of a tipless, theoretically/legalistically noncombative version, of swords is an European custom, and common in former Spainish colonies. In other words, the tip is made that way as a statement of nonviolent intent. I think you're probably OK with the epoxy, but I'll suggest for future repairers that the Luzon cutlers not uncommonly fill a horn cavity at the butt with a wooden cone. Ooh! I knew I was gonna say something else; there's a thread, I think towards the end days of the old forum, where some member or members posted pics and advice about weaving split rattan-skin bindings I tend to think this particular variation on the hoof shaped pommel is distinctly 20th c.; maybe even post wwII? Anyone got any better input on that? Last edited by tom hyle; 8th April 2005 at 04:45 AM. Reason: adding, adding; so forgetful!

8th April 2005, 01:54 PM	#2
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,362	Tom: I think this style of hilt may date back at least to the late 19th C., but it is certainly more prevalent post-WWII. I apprciate your thoughts about the cut point, and a European/Spanish influence makes a lot of sense. The original blade shape may have been called a matulis (= "pointy" in Tagalog) -- balasiong is a southern Philippines term, I believe, and has no connection to the more familiar balisong. On the question of rattan bindings, I have been looking for a "how to" source for some time. My favorite style of wrap is that used by the Igorot tribes -- it seems sturdier and more durable than the work of other tribal groups. Igorot basketry is high quality too. Ian.

8th April 2005, 07:16 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	So far as the lashings/bindings go, I have yet to find a perfect reference, but the simpler bindings sometimes turn up in books on knotmaking. I would check the local bookstore. Knotmaking books are usually in the sports section under boating, at least in the big US stores like Barnes and Noble or Borders. Let me know if you find a better source! Fearn

9th April 2005, 06:36 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	What challenges me is getting the stuff to keep laying flat, and that's where knot patterns learned from cord don't help, I guess. I guess it's partly a matter of wetted/green pliability, and maybe narrower strips may be easier to keep flat through the side-winding than would wide ones. What of basket books? I haven't checked; just some thoughts.

9th April 2005, 11:14 AM	#5
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Searching the old forum came up with the book "Creative Ropecraft". I've ordered a used copy from Amazon.com. Also ordered some 11/64" flat/oval reed from here: http://www.royalwoodltd.com/cat05-06r.htm We'll see how it goes. Thanks for all of your help guys. Steve

9th April 2005, 04:17 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	It might be helpful when using the wet method to tightly bind the wrapping itself during the drying process so that as it dries and shrinks it is kept flat . I would guess that this weaving was originally done with green rattan strips and I don't know if the same effect could be obtained by using re-wetted rattan .

10th April 2005, 05:03 AM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	A layer of some kind of temporary over-binding to make it lay flat while drying may be a good idea; I use it sometimes when leather-binding a wooden sheath. There's something about rattan not reacting to water as leather does; it seems real important, but I can't remember what it is.....