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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
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Hi Chris
Great photos. They cleared up a lot of things. Now I understand navajas much better. Something I still can't understand is that you said that navajas made not very good weapons. After handling that French navaja I mentioned I agree. So why did the Spaniards use them at all and why not fixed blade knives or swords. After all thier swords were suposed to be very good. I sent you a private message. Keeo up the good stuff Frank |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi Frank,
From 1723 onwards the Spanish rulers introduced extremely restrictive weapon bans and this is the reason that the navaja was invented. There were no navaja (as we know them) before that date. Up to that date Spaniards had far better weapons at their disposal! After the bans, all effective weapons were restricted to the upper nobility. The lower nobility were allowed swords, but not firearms and the plebes nothing! In time the authorities accepted folding knives, but only if the blade could not be locked into position. These bans were backed with an extremely harsh penal code. Anyone caught with a prohibited weapon got the works! (see pic of executed man for possessing a navaja). However, we do know that the degree of enforcement varied with the times and across jurisdictions, Southern Spain being more tolerant. Nevertheless, the laws were enforced sufficiently to just about kill off their own cutlery industry and ensuring that the majority of navajas in use by 1860 did not have full mechanical locks. In my very carefully considered opinion, after examining all the facts available, the navaja is a vastly over rated knife, be it as a tool or weapon; Requiring two hands and being slow to open, as well as fragile, it cannot be considered an appropriate weapon - A mere 4ft wooden stick can overcome it with ease! The Spaniards did not choose navajas because it was a great weapon, rather they defaulted to it, because: a) Knives were an essential tool in agricultural societies and they needed a knife that they could carry; and b) everything else was prohibited They knew perfectly well that the fixed blade "cuchillo" (knife) and its variants were the best cut and thrust short arms, but so did the authorities and for this very reason they were banned. That the opposite perception prevails is due to the misconceptions of present day writers who either make up their own version of history, or in their ignorance base their opinions on the Spanish myths and folklore invented by their intellectuals; These, in their nationalistic writings and paintings, mostly in the late 19th and early 20th century, eulogized the Spanish peasant and his ways, equating him with all that was noble and heroic in the land. Actually, this was in keeping with the then global literary trends and not unique to Spain. Just look at the image and lore surrounding the US cowboys, Argentinean Gauchos and our own pioneers and bushrangers. None of this is to say that there was no violence in Old Spain, because there was plenty. But most of the blood-letting was in likelihood not committed with navajas, "mano a mano", but rather with whatever lay at hand, from kitchen knives, to axes and sticks, as was and remains the case today all over the world. As for the Spanish criminal elements, they considered themselves outside the law and used everything from swords to firearms, as they tend to do everywhere, regardless of bans. Cheers Chris Last edited by Chris Evans; 8th April 2005 at 06:18 AM. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi,
Here is a rather somber reminder of how the weapon bans were enforced in Old Spain. This illustration is by the renowned painter Francisco Goya who was active in the Napoleonic era. Scan taken from Forton's "La Navaja Espanola Antigua" Frank: Got your meassge and I sent you my email address. Cheers Chris |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 1,254
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All very interesting. Really, basically no traditional folding knife is really intended for violence, and the idea that they are tends to arise in just the sort of sheltered/oppressed environment described in Spain, where the disarmed develop an exaggerated horror of weapons and anything weaponlike. Folding knives, like any small knife, are certainly no equal match to a club or dagger, but are often resorted to (here and now in N America, I very strongly assure you) for emergency self-defence, and it is thus helpful and not at all fantastical or unrealistic, for them to be designed and selected with features that aid in that, such as locks, points, swedged spine. Butterfly knife is one some N Americans get real excercised over now days; how silly; a very ordinary locking folder style; nothing especially violent about it. The only exception is for switchblades, which are, and frankly always have been, like unto the giant folders, largely basically a toy. No few folding knives I can swat in half with my left hand, if they're held securely enough not to drop, and none of them are the ideal weapon, but they do have their uses; you can let all the blood out of someone in a grapple pretty well with one, if it's sharp (this is the most valuable feature, followed closely by a decent sturdiness, fast easy opening, then a lock, point, concealability, legal nonweapon status, etc.)
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#5 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi Tom,
You make excellent and valid points. I guess, that the object lesson, if there is one, is for future historians not to fall into the trap of assuming that just because tactical folders were popular at the start of the 21st century, they were the best weapon for SD and therefore they must chosen over and above other weapons. Rather, that's what people defaulted to, because better weapons were banned or too many obstacles were placed in the path to their ownership, as was the caase with navajas. The situation here in Australia is very similar to what you describe - I guess, we just follow US trends. Your superbly well made tactical folders, such as by CS and Benchmade adorn the display cases of our shops and sell in substantial numbers- Why? Because we have some of the toughest anti gun, sword and knife laws . And yet we also have fatal violence in the bigger cities in alarming numbers. Cheers Chris |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 23
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Hi Everybody,
I just got a couple of book recomended by Chris: "Navajas Antiguas - Las Mejores Piezas de Coleccion" . Terrific book and a real eye opener. It is in Spanish and English and easy to read. The modern navajas dont look anything like these. Also "La Navaja Espanola Antigua". This one is in Spanish and can't understand a word but the lots of pictures tell a story and it is full of facts and figures. I know someone who is Spanish and he has been helping me a little to translate. It is all like Chris said. Thanks mate. Best wishes Frank |
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#7 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
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Hi Frank
Happy to see that you are finding those books worth your while. The one titled "Las Mejores Piezas de Coleccion" is the standard reference book for collectors and antiquarians. It is very useful for establishing the origin and approximate date of manufacture of navajas. I don't know if you noticed the large number of absolutely fearsome looking and large navajas without a blade lock; It tells us something about the enforcement of the anti-blade lock laws and also that most were nowhere as formidable weapons as we are told - Hey, what did all those fearless Barateros fight with? This is especially so, if we consider that by the mid 1800s the majority of the navajas in use in Spain had French origins and for most part these did not have locks (look at the French pages and what turns up on e-Bay). What I found even more interesting is that some time ago I came across an antique that had a ratcheting mechanical lock in the typical Spanish manner but the rear of the blade notch was filed back so that the knife would close under pressure on the blade. Presumably this modification was done so as to conform to the laws forbidding locks. Cheers Chris Last edited by Chris Evans; 23rd April 2005 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Picture does not show |
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