Melanesian pole club?

fearn · 4th September 2008, 05:15 AM

Hi Tim,

Glad to help. Perhaps it needs a home behind the door, for providing a warm and friendly welcome to any visiting neds...

F

ausjulius · 5th September 2008, 03:37 AM

could most likely be fiji or could be tonga both areas octagonial clubs were common.. , actualy fijian clubs were traded all around the pacific due to their quality and hardness of woods found in fiji.

Tim Simmons · 5th September 2008, 06:51 AM

You sound such a nice chap

I had hopes but have lost my confidence. I can say as can be seen, it has an all over smooth patina which I have not seen on martial arts kit. The octagonal carving in real space seems less precise that one would think of Japanese work or is that just hope. Look at the patina of all three clubs.

fearn · 5th September 2008, 07:17 AM

Hi Tim,

The thing is that the Japanese martial arts community seems to have set standards for the different stick sizes, so one way to check the origin is to get out your tape and measure length and diameter. If it's close to 30" and between 1 and 1.5", it's quite possibly a hanbo. If it's not close to these measurements, it's more likely something else.

F

Tim Simmons · 5th September 2008, 03:21 PM

It is 34" long and just over an inch at the distal end . Is that near or off Japanese standard size? The polish and patina to the wood does give me a little hope to hold on to. I know that todays martial arts kit is not polished or has patina but would one from the late 19th early 20th century be so

Having googled images "hanbo" I am no longer so sure it is a hanbo. Like swords most stick weapons are in universal size perameters. The Japanese may have famous schools and names for weapons but lets not forget that a club or stick weapon is exactly that and the South Seas peoples fought with clubs for thousands of years surely they new all the moves or more too. There is something about the finish so similar to all my other clubs that also makes me not so sure any more of it being a hanbo but the doubt the other way is still there, sadly.

Certainly untill better information or another edxample is shown.

fearn · 6th September 2008, 01:29 AM

Well, you've got me scratching my head. Back 100 years ago, the Japanese arts weren't so rigidly systematized, sooo....

I figured that exact dimensions would give a match. Inexact dimensions? Not sure what that means. Reminds me of an aikido teacher who gave a jo (4' staff) seminar. He insisted that the proper height was the height of your heart. My 4' stick was a bit too short, and I noticed it when spinning the stick.

I still need to see a good match from Oceania, though.

F

ausjulius · 6th September 2008, 01:46 AM

hmm i had an old catalouge from an australian ethnic weapons dealer , must have been about 20 years old,, and in it were listed a large array of fijian fighing staffs in octaginal section ,, shown just as yours .. in variang lenths , i belive some may have an a small nob on the grip also dont remember.. focrise , things like native clubs are always mislabled , so they could have just aswell came from any other area in the pacific..

japanese use wood plains.. and so their carving is nice and even as any in europe from the same era,, also they use woods from their locality , none of which are very dense being a temperate zone.. so look at the wood and at the working of it and youll be able to tell......

or ask some japanese wood worker if he kniws the wood..

5th September 2008, 03:21 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	It is 34" long and just over an inch at the distal end . Is that near or off Japanese standard size? The polish and patina to the wood does give me a little hope to hold on to. I know that todays martial arts kit is not polished or has patina but would one from the late 19th early 20th century be so Having googled images "hanbo" I am no longer so sure it is a hanbo. Like swords most stick weapons are in universal size perameters. The Japanese may have famous schools and names for weapons but lets not forget that a club or stick weapon is exactly that and the South Seas peoples fought with clubs for thousands of years surely they new all the moves or more too. There is something about the finish so similar to all my other clubs that also makes me not so sure any more of it being a hanbo but the doubt the other way is still there, sadly. Certainly untill better information or another edxample is shown. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 5th September 2008 at 07:45 PM. Reason: adding

4th September 2008, 05:15 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, Glad to help. Perhaps it needs a home behind the door, for providing a warm and friendly welcome to any visiting neds... F

5th September 2008, 03:37 AM	#2
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 438	could most likely be fiji or could be tonga both areas octagonial clubs were common.. , actualy fijian clubs were traded all around the pacific due to their quality and hardness of woods found in fiji.

5th September 2008, 06:51 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	You sound such a nice chap I had hopes but have lost my confidence. I can say as can be seen, it has an all over smooth patina which I have not seen on martial arts kit. The octagonal carving in real space seems less precise that one would think of Japanese work or is that just hope. Look at the patina of all three clubs.

5th September 2008, 07:17 AM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, The thing is that the Japanese martial arts community seems to have set standards for the different stick sizes, so one way to check the origin is to get out your tape and measure length and diameter. If it's close to 30" and between 1 and 1.5", it's quite possibly a hanbo. If it's not close to these measurements, it's more likely something else. F

6th September 2008, 01:29 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Well, you've got me scratching my head. Back 100 years ago, the Japanese arts weren't so rigidly systematized, sooo.... I figured that exact dimensions would give a match. Inexact dimensions? Not sure what that means. Reminds me of an aikido teacher who gave a jo (4' staff) seminar. He insisted that the proper height was the height of your heart. My 4' stick was a bit too short, and I noticed it when spinning the stick. I still need to see a good match from Oceania, though. F

6th September 2008, 01:46 AM	#7
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 438	hmm i had an old catalouge from an australian ethnic weapons dealer , must have been about 20 years old,, and in it were listed a large array of fijian fighing staffs in octaginal section ,, shown just as yours .. in variang lenths , i belive some may have an a small nob on the grip also dont remember.. focrise , things like native clubs are always mislabled , so they could have just aswell came from any other area in the pacific.. japanese use wood plains.. and so their carving is nice and even as any in europe from the same era,, also they use woods from their locality , none of which are very dense being a temperate zone.. so look at the wood and at the working of it and youll be able to tell...... or ask some japanese wood worker if he kniws the wood..