Sword from Lombok -- comments please

Conogre · 2nd April 2005, 06:15 PM

My guess is that this piece didn't originate on Lombok, but rather just ended up there.
It looks to be an exceptional specimen of a pedang suduk, but they were previouly known for a while as parang lusuk and even as "tempius", I believe in "Stone's".
My "gut feeling " about your particular sword is that it originated in the area of Indonesia that seems almost to be a piece of the Philippines at times, with Moro appearing pieces extremely common.....I'm sure you know where I mean, Ian, but I'm drawing a complete blank at the moment.
While these are currently accepted to be slashing swords, my own suspicion is that in actuality they were quite probably used as official executioner's weapons, in the same manner attributed to the long bladed kerises.
If so, damage to the tip from a body falling sideways faster than was expected could cause tip damage if it wasn't completely extricated in time, and would result in a needed repair similar to yours.
Your piece, more than any other that I've seen seems to lend itself to my personal theory even more than most as it would be eminently suitable and appropriate as a court sword, and likewise the relatively bloodless stab would seem to be favored in a palacial environment.
Mike

capt.smash · 2nd April 2005, 06:51 PM

NO need for battery acid

remember i just used it because i had sanded and sealed the grain-[i can tell this is going to haunt me

]id personaly clean with fruit juice and make a mild staining solution like i did its very rewarding when the pattern gradualy emerges...its not like ull damage the blade u can always clean it again if your not happy

nechesh · 2nd April 2005, 07:42 PM

Oh Smashy, i'll bet you've got a few more pressing skeletons hanging around in your closet to haunt you than battery acid.

Sorry Mike, but i think i disagree with you here on many fronts. IMO this is not the same blade form at all to the example you posted. It does resemble other cundiks i have seen, but i don't know enough about this form to know if this is truly one. I don't think this was ever intended as a slashing weapon either. I think it's origin probably is Lombok or Bali as the blade work looks very much like other weapons from that area. I also don't think this is an executioners weapon. How long is it anyway. The bloodless means of execution you mention Mike requires a fairly long blade.
Rick, i see what you mean by suggesting it may be a reformed keris, especially having a pecetan and all, but my gut feeling is that this is the blade's original form, tip and all.

Rick · 2nd April 2005, 08:42 PM

Mike , I've gotta go with Nechesh on the origin of this blade , Bali or Lombok .

Naga Sasra · 2nd April 2005, 11:35 PM

Very nice piece of traditional Lombok design, it is called a Cundrik or Sundrik.
A nearly identical piece is pictured in Djelenga's "Keris Di Lombok" on page 101.

BluErf · 2nd April 2005, 11:53 PM

Could it be a keris pedang? It has a picetan at the base. Maybe it lost its ganja, and someone redressed it with modern-style fittings.

Conogre · 3rd April 2005, 04:46 AM

Hopefully I'm not clouding the issue here, but here's a keris I just got last week from Justin and I freely admit that keris are my weakest point in all of the PI/Indo/Malay weapons, likewise my least favorite.
This one, on the other hand, feels like a real weapon, with a blade that's decidedly non-pamor in relation to other kerises that I've had and seen, including some truly magnificent specimens of Mick's, and likewise has the deep grooving as in Ian's piece and many Philippine war kris.
Following the train of thought that seems to be developing, then this is likely a Lombok piece and the type that is being mentioned as possibly being what Ian's started as?

2nd April 2005, 06:15 PM	#1
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	My guess is that this piece didn't originate on Lombok, but rather just ended up there. It looks to be an exceptional specimen of a pedang suduk, but they were previouly known for a while as parang lusuk and even as "tempius", I believe in "Stone's". My "gut feeling " about your particular sword is that it originated in the area of Indonesia that seems almost to be a piece of the Philippines at times, with Moro appearing pieces extremely common.....I'm sure you know where I mean, Ian, but I'm drawing a complete blank at the moment. While these are currently accepted to be slashing swords, my own suspicion is that in actuality they were quite probably used as official executioner's weapons, in the same manner attributed to the long bladed kerises. If so, damage to the tip from a body falling sideways faster than was expected could cause tip damage if it wasn't completely extricated in time, and would result in a needed repair similar to yours. Your piece, more than any other that I've seen seems to lend itself to my personal theory even more than most as it would be eminently suitable and appropriate as a court sword, and likewise the relatively bloodless stab would seem to be favored in a palacial environment. Mike Attached Images

3rd April 2005, 04:46 AM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Hopefully I'm not clouding the issue here, but here's a keris I just got last week from Justin and I freely admit that keris are my weakest point in all of the PI/Indo/Malay weapons, likewise my least favorite. This one, on the other hand, feels like a real weapon, with a blade that's decidedly non-pamor in relation to other kerises that I've had and seen, including some truly magnificent specimens of Mick's, and likewise has the deep grooving as in Ian's piece and many Philippine war kris. Following the train of thought that seems to be developing, then this is likely a Lombok piece and the type that is being mentioned as possibly being what Ian's started as? Attached Images

2nd April 2005, 06:51 PM	#2
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	NO need for battery acid remember i just used it because i had sanded and sealed the grain-[i can tell this is going to haunt me ]id personaly clean with fruit juice and make a mild staining solution like i did its very rewarding when the pattern gradualy emerges...its not like ull damage the blade u can always clean it again if your not happy

2nd April 2005, 07:42 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Oh Smashy, i'll bet you've got a few more pressing skeletons hanging around in your closet to haunt you than battery acid. Sorry Mike, but i think i disagree with you here on many fronts. IMO this is not the same blade form at all to the example you posted. It does resemble other cundiks i have seen, but i don't know enough about this form to know if this is truly one. I don't think this was ever intended as a slashing weapon either. I think it's origin probably is Lombok or Bali as the blade work looks very much like other weapons from that area. I also don't think this is an executioners weapon. How long is it anyway. The bloodless means of execution you mention Mike requires a fairly long blade. Rick, i see what you mean by suggesting it may be a reformed keris, especially having a pecetan and all, but my gut feeling is that this is the blade's original form, tip and all.

2nd April 2005, 08:42 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Mike , I've gotta go with Nechesh on the origin of this blade , Bali or Lombok .

2nd April 2005, 11:35 PM	#5
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	Very nice piece of traditional Lombok design, it is called a Cundrik or Sundrik. A nearly identical piece is pictured in Djelenga's "Keris Di Lombok" on page 101.

2nd April 2005, 11:53 PM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Could it be a keris pedang? It has a picetan at the base. Maybe it lost its ganja, and someone redressed it with modern-style fittings.