Sword from Lombok -- comments please

Rick · 2nd April 2005, 03:48 PM

Hi Ian , I like this sword very much .

I'd suggest the Capt's way of etching ; it worked quite nicely on his blade ... BUT ... I'm afraid Nechesh is gonna put the hoodoo on me if you took my advice .

Tell me one thing ; is the base of the ukiran carved so that it fills the gold cup/selut at the base or is that empty space in there ?

I've always wanted one of these (along with a million other pieces) !

nechesh · 2nd April 2005, 04:27 PM

I agree with Rick, by all means etch it, but i would stay away from the battery acids myself. It looks like there is a nice pamor in there.

I also doubt the women's sword attribution. Would this blade be deemed a pedang?
And Rick, what's a Beantown Yankee boy like you know about Hoodoo anyway!

Rick · 2nd April 2005, 05:28 PM

Born On The Bayou Dave (the Back Bayou) .

Ian , I find the tip of the blade interesting ; done on purpose ?

Ian · 2nd April 2005, 05:37 PM

Definitely done on purpose -- quite symmetrical and ground to that particular shape. Possibly a repair?

Ian

Rick · 2nd April 2005, 05:59 PM

Ian , Nechesh , do you think there's any chance at all that this is a re-shaped keris blade ?

Conogre · 2nd April 2005, 06:15 PM

My guess is that this piece didn't originate on Lombok, but rather just ended up there.
It looks to be an exceptional specimen of a pedang suduk, but they were previouly known for a while as parang lusuk and even as "tempius", I believe in "Stone's".
My "gut feeling " about your particular sword is that it originated in the area of Indonesia that seems almost to be a piece of the Philippines at times, with Moro appearing pieces extremely common.....I'm sure you know where I mean, Ian, but I'm drawing a complete blank at the moment.
While these are currently accepted to be slashing swords, my own suspicion is that in actuality they were quite probably used as official executioner's weapons, in the same manner attributed to the long bladed kerises.
If so, damage to the tip from a body falling sideways faster than was expected could cause tip damage if it wasn't completely extricated in time, and would result in a needed repair similar to yours.
Your piece, more than any other that I've seen seems to lend itself to my personal theory even more than most as it would be eminently suitable and appropriate as a court sword, and likewise the relatively bloodless stab would seem to be favored in a palacial environment.
Mike

capt.smash · 2nd April 2005, 06:51 PM

NO need for battery acid

remember i just used it because i had sanded and sealed the grain-[i can tell this is going to haunt me

]id personaly clean with fruit juice and make a mild staining solution like i did its very rewarding when the pattern gradualy emerges...its not like ull damage the blade u can always clean it again if your not happy

Ian · 5th April 2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Tell me one thing ; is the base of the ukiran carved so that it fills the gold cup/selut at the base or is that empty space in there ?

Sorry Rick, I did not answer your question. The fit of the handle to the selut has a space that has been filled with a pitch-like material that has been ground to a precise, flush fit to the lip of the selut. Does that make sense?

Ian.

Rick · 5th April 2005, 03:48 PM

Thanks Ian , now that has me thinking .

That method of assembly seems a little suspicious , so now I'm wondering if it is a composite piece .

Ian · 5th April 2005, 07:44 PM

Don't know Rick -- looks original to me, although an old repair or assembly is possible. The matching of the guard to the sheath is perfect, and the guard is integral with the gold cup/selut. I have not seen any others to be able to comment on whether this is a normal arrangement. Perhaps Naga Sasra could help or one of the other Forumites with more specific knowledge than I have.

Ian.

Rick · 5th April 2005, 08:36 PM

Hi Ian , I don't really mean to play the skeptic , but that part of the construction struck me as a little strange . If the piece were used couldn't the exposed edge around the hilt tend to possibly injure the hand that wields it ?
Maybe the original ukiran has been replaced .

/I'm still lovin' it though !

Ian · 6th April 2005, 05:43 AM

Rick:

You could be right.

The feel in hand is very comfortable with that raised cup, and in fact the forefinger and thumb rest naturally around it. I don't think the "edge" would be a problem with a stabbing movement because the disk guard would absorb the forward movement of the hand and the "edge" probably would not be an inconvenience.

It is an unusual construction.

Ian.

2nd April 2005, 06:15 PM	#6
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	My guess is that this piece didn't originate on Lombok, but rather just ended up there. It looks to be an exceptional specimen of a pedang suduk, but they were previouly known for a while as parang lusuk and even as "tempius", I believe in "Stone's". My "gut feeling " about your particular sword is that it originated in the area of Indonesia that seems almost to be a piece of the Philippines at times, with Moro appearing pieces extremely common.....I'm sure you know where I mean, Ian, but I'm drawing a complete blank at the moment. While these are currently accepted to be slashing swords, my own suspicion is that in actuality they were quite probably used as official executioner's weapons, in the same manner attributed to the long bladed kerises. If so, damage to the tip from a body falling sideways faster than was expected could cause tip damage if it wasn't completely extricated in time, and would result in a needed repair similar to yours. Your piece, more than any other that I've seen seems to lend itself to my personal theory even more than most as it would be eminently suitable and appropriate as a court sword, and likewise the relatively bloodless stab would seem to be favored in a palacial environment. Mike Attached Images

2nd April 2005, 03:48 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Hi Ian , I like this sword very much . I'd suggest the Capt's way of etching ; it worked quite nicely on his blade ... BUT ... I'm afraid Nechesh is gonna put the hoodoo on me if you took my advice . Tell me one thing ; is the base of the ukiran carved so that it fills the gold cup/selut at the base or is that empty space in there ? I've always wanted one of these (along with a million other pieces) !

2nd April 2005, 04:27 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	I agree with Rick, by all means etch it, but i would stay away from the battery acids myself. It looks like there is a nice pamor in there. I also doubt the women's sword attribution. Would this blade be deemed a pedang? And Rick, what's a Beantown Yankee boy like you know about Hoodoo anyway!

2nd April 2005, 05:28 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Born On The Bayou Dave (the Back Bayou) . Ian , I find the tip of the blade interesting ; done on purpose ?

2nd April 2005, 05:37 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Definitely done on purpose -- quite symmetrical and ground to that particular shape. Possibly a repair? Ian

2nd April 2005, 05:59 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Ian , Nechesh , do you think there's any chance at all that this is a re-shaped keris blade ?

2nd April 2005, 06:51 PM	#7
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	NO need for battery acid remember i just used it because i had sanded and sealed the grain-[i can tell this is going to haunt me ]id personaly clean with fruit juice and make a mild staining solution like i did its very rewarding when the pattern gradualy emerges...its not like ull damage the blade u can always clean it again if your not happy

5th April 2005, 03:48 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Thanks Ian , now that has me thinking . That method of assembly seems a little suspicious , so now I'm wondering if it is a composite piece .

5th April 2005, 07:44 PM	#10
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Don't know Rick -- looks original to me, although an old repair or assembly is possible. The matching of the guard to the sheath is perfect, and the guard is integral with the gold cup/selut. I have not seen any others to be able to comment on whether this is a normal arrangement. Perhaps Naga Sasra could help or one of the other Forumites with more specific knowledge than I have. Ian.

5th April 2005, 08:36 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Hi Ian , I don't really mean to play the skeptic , but that part of the construction struck me as a little strange . If the piece were used couldn't the exposed edge around the hilt tend to possibly injure the hand that wields it ? Maybe the original ukiran has been replaced . /I'm still lovin' it though !

6th April 2005, 05:43 AM	#12
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Rick: You could be right. The feel in hand is very comfortable with that raised cup, and in fact the forefinger and thumb rest naturally around it. I don't think the "edge" would be a problem with a stabbing movement because the disk guard would absorb the forward movement of the hand and the "edge" probably would not be an inconvenience. It is an unusual construction. Ian.