Aceh Sikin for coments

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Battara

What is the difference in status or significance between the gold inlay type and the "crown" type of ferrule?

Originally Posted by Kai

Hello Jose,
Ben asked the very same question a good while back but we never got enough evidence for a decent answer...

Hi Kai,
If i recall, what Ben asked was the importance of the crowns in handles, not the difference in status between blades with gold inlay and the the crowns.
Crowns may be added at a later stage, while blade inlay is there from the beginning, right ?

Fernando

[asomotif]

Crowns may be added at a later stage, while blade inlay is there from the beginning, right ?

Dear Fernando,

I think that technically both can be done after a weapon is finished.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Dear Fernando,

I think that technically both can be done after a weapon is finished.

Hi Willem,
I don't mean technically, but chronologically. Like, if you already have a noble status you will buy a sword with blade inlay; but if you achieve some status at a later stage, you add a crown to your sword handle.
Just my fantasy
Fernando

[Dajak]

Don't look like an fantasy to me Fernando


Ben

[asomotif]

Thinking that way, one could also get a plain Sikin and have it inlaid after getting higher status.
And maybe later add some status by adding a crown ?

But I assume most status was already received by birth.
Maybe Ben can confirm this.

Ps. Ben, you brought your Lap top on holidays ???

Best regards,
Willem

[kai]

Hello Fernando,

If i recall, what Ben asked was the importance of the crowns in handles, not the difference in status between blades with gold inlay and the the crowns.

Yes, you're right. However, both touch on the issue of status (and the societies we're talking about were highly stratified) and we still don't have enough firsthand accounts to answer any of these questions with any certainty. When looking at the craftmanship of a larger amount of examples I believe the approximate status is fairly intuitive though - just have a look at the peudeueng from Ben's collection!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1995

Crowns may be added at a later stage, while blade inlay is there from the beginning, right ?

Both could be added later. I would guess that most of these swords were pusaka and/or gifts from the sultan signifying a person's function (i. e. as a judge).

Regards,
Kai

[Dajak]

Hi Willem internet cafe everywhere here in Sanur Bali

An High rank officer is not only by birth

you can get there by good things you do like killing as much Dutch soldiers

Inlay is most from the start you can see the difference if it is put later on



Ben

[asomotif]

Hi Ben,

good things you do like killing as much Dutch soldiers

The Indonesian sun is getting to your head already

PS. also getting back on Battara's comment :

Pure gold (or gold mixture 10k or more) were frowned upon by the Prophet as being weak (making men weak). Swassa is 9k and below, about a 1/3 and less gold content and thus not considered gold as such.

Interesting theory.
But Sikin's with crowns are often very elaborate. With 2 or layers of crowns and enamel inlay.
While Sikin's with Suasa are often just showing a simple ring of suasa with some very simple lines. combined with a brass ferule. in crwon shape.

I am afraid even the noblest of the noble are attracted by gold.

[Dajak]

Hi Willem you right about the gold

Gold always more than suwasa

And yes I did get sunbrand on my head

Ben

[Battara]

Well.....I never said that gold was not used. Even Moro stuff occasionally has gold on it, as in 10k or above. I have a Moro kris with this on it. It was an answer for the tendency away from gold for some.

[fernando]

I have just got the Zonneveld book.
He is very definite at mentioning sikins with blades that have gold-wire incrustations which, in this case, are called sikin panjang meutatah.
So this variant his well established in sikin typology.
Further he quotes that the part of the blade where (or when ?) these inlays are done is called sampa.
... i am learning
Fernando