corsican cavalry saber, or.............

ariel · 25th July 2008, 02:59 PM

Couple of years ago I was at a meeing in Versailles ( France, of course:-)...)
There was a big oil painting in the Palace , dating from the 18th century(?) and depicting some episode in North African warfare.At the right lower corner, there was a fierce Arab holding exactly this kind of sword.
I did not have a camera ( and photography was officially banned).
perhaps, one of our French friends can find the picture and provide an account.

ward · 25th July 2008, 08:32 PM

I have never seen anything similar in museums or in the souqs in North Africa. It is always possible that it is but the only reference I have seen saying that is Tirri.

Nagawarrior · 25th July 2008, 09:34 PM

I see Artzi has a couple colonial spanish swords similar to the sword in this thread, with profiled tip and all. I didn't link to Oriental Arms web site without permission. Maybe Artzi will chime in here. I have one of these swords too and always thought them to be berber, but quickly changing my mind. Probably found their way to spanish morroco, cuba or where ever Spanish troops were sent.

M ELEY · 26th July 2008, 01:42 AM

Very interesting development on these. Just read this thread and had assumed that these were absolutely of Moroccan origin. Interestingly enough, over a decade ago I had one of these. When I bought it, they told me it was a "Cuban sword from the Span-Amer War". Now this early guess might be proved out. I can see the cross-over from Spanish Morocco to a Caribbean area. One only has to remember the pirate routes from the Corsairs territory across the ocean to the West Indies. I'm reminded of a sword reportedly carried by one of Captain Morgan's European crewmen that was a Chinese ken sword. Interesting...
The thing is, when you look at the first example on this thread, you see a cut-down Euro sword with a fairly common pattern seen in Mexico and S America today (19th century machetes, the Brazilian espada discussed, etc.). BUT I have seen some that are not cut-down Brit pieces, but ones with flared points on them (Artzi has had several examples). My point is, if you're ever seen the wide variety of reused/recycled blades reworked into machetes, it would be easy to write these off as only from the Cuban region). Other examples, with their decoration, hilt elements and blade design, make it seem entirely possible that these came from Morocco. In which case, they made the jump from the Rif Valley to Havanna nicely!

25th July 2008, 02:59 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Couple of years ago I was at a meeing in Versailles ( France, of course:-)...) There was a big oil painting in the Palace , dating from the 18th century(?) and depicting some episode in North African warfare.At the right lower corner, there was a fierce Arab holding exactly this kind of sword. I did not have a camera ( and photography was officially banned). perhaps, one of our French friends can find the picture and provide an account.

25th July 2008, 08:32 PM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I have never seen anything similar in museums or in the souqs in North Africa. It is always possible that it is but the only reference I have seen saying that is Tirri.

25th July 2008, 09:34 PM	#3
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	I see Artzi has a couple colonial spanish swords similar to the sword in this thread, with profiled tip and all. I didn't link to Oriental Arms web site without permission. Maybe Artzi will chime in here. I have one of these swords too and always thought them to be berber, but quickly changing my mind. Probably found their way to spanish morroco, cuba or where ever Spanish troops were sent.

26th July 2008, 01:42 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Very interesting development on these. Just read this thread and had assumed that these were absolutely of Moroccan origin. Interestingly enough, over a decade ago I had one of these. When I bought it, they told me it was a "Cuban sword from the Span-Amer War". Now this early guess might be proved out. I can see the cross-over from Spanish Morocco to a Caribbean area. One only has to remember the pirate routes from the Corsairs territory across the ocean to the West Indies. I'm reminded of a sword reportedly carried by one of Captain Morgan's European crewmen that was a Chinese ken sword. Interesting... The thing is, when you look at the first example on this thread, you see a cut-down Euro sword with a fairly common pattern seen in Mexico and S America today (19th century machetes, the Brazilian espada discussed, etc.). BUT I have seen some that are not cut-down Brit pieces, but ones with flared points on them (Artzi has had several examples). My point is, if you're ever seen the wide variety of reused/recycled blades reworked into machetes, it would be easy to write these off as only from the Cuban region). Other examples, with their decoration, hilt elements and blade design, make it seem entirely possible that these came from Morocco. In which case, they made the jump from the Rif Valley to Havanna nicely!