How old is pamor

PenangsangII · 25th July 2008, 03:51 AM

Alan, are you saying 12-13 C West Java is actually Padjajaran?

A. G. Maisey · 25th July 2008, 04:03 AM

I'm reluctant to use the term Pajajaran in this context, because we cannot define the entity with sufficient clarity, but yes, in simple terms, Pajajaran.

drdavid · 25th July 2008, 09:42 AM

Thanks Alan, that is very helpful. Do you have any thoughts about when the 'artistic manipulation' of pamor beyond the natural patterns like beras wutah became commonplace. I am afraid I am making the assumption here that beras wutah is the sort of random pattern that comes from normal forging, which may be way off.
David

A. G. Maisey · 25th July 2008, 11:43 AM

Beras wutah is the natural result of forging out, bending, and welding:- the typical random pattern.

As to when manipulated patterns for artistic purposes began to appear, sorry, I cannot support a hypothesis---or more correctly, I cannot support a reasonable speculation as long as I'm wearing my western analytical hat, if I care to put my Jawa hat on, I can give all sorts of very good arguments for around about mid Majapahit---but I'm not going to go there.

25th July 2008, 03:51 AM	#1
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Alan, are you saying 12-13 C West Java is actually Padjajaran?

25th July 2008, 04:03 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I'm reluctant to use the term Pajajaran in this context, because we cannot define the entity with sufficient clarity, but yes, in simple terms, Pajajaran.

25th July 2008, 09:42 AM	#3
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 372	Thanks Alan, that is very helpful. Do you have any thoughts about when the 'artistic manipulation' of pamor beyond the natural patterns like beras wutah became commonplace. I am afraid I am making the assumption here that beras wutah is the sort of random pattern that comes from normal forging, which may be way off. David

25th July 2008, 11:43 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Beras wutah is the natural result of forging out, bending, and welding:- the typical random pattern. As to when manipulated patterns for artistic purposes began to appear, sorry, I cannot support a hypothesis---or more correctly, I cannot support a reasonable speculation as long as I'm wearing my western analytical hat, if I care to put my Jawa hat on, I can give all sorts of very good arguments for around about mid Majapahit---but I'm not going to go there.