Barbary corsairs/swords

fernando · 23rd July 2008, 01:12 AM

Crossbows were a common device among Berberes and Arabs.
These are two examples extracted from ancient portolanos showing the flag of Béjaïa, a city and province in the Algerine Barbary Coast, where piracy was a way of life.

M ELEY · 23rd July 2008, 03:41 AM

Excellent information,gents! RhysMichael, great stuff! When I get more time, I'll look more deeply into the listed links. I'd read about Hoppson's exploits somewhere else, but never got to actually see the nimcha itself. It's nice to see one of this early dating matching its later counterparts exactly.Thanks!

Fernando, thanks for the mention of crossbows. Fascinating! On the link that Rick attached, it does show a Corsair with a crossbow. When I first saw it (before reading your comment and seeing the reference to flags), I just figured it was another farsical European depiction of a Berber. Too cool! In thinking about it, it makes perfect sense. Firearms were fairly scarce for many of these poor pirats (except what they could capture from others-note the pic of Barbarossa above with the captured European sword). many of the Maghreb weapons were primitive matchlock devices, so a crossbow would be a welcome alternative. Likewise, it was a silent weapon. When Stephen Decatur snuck into Tripoli in 1804 to destroy the captured U.S. warship, it was under a veil of silence. He allowed his men no firearms in fear of an accidental ignition and all bladed arms had to remain sheathed as not to reflect moonlight and give away their position. In keeping with this theme, the crossbow would have been an ideal pirating weapon to sneak over the side of a ship with. Very cool!

RhysMichael · 23rd July 2008, 07:17 PM

The Joassamee Pirates striking off the arm of Capt. Babcock. From THE PIRATES OWN BOOK Authentic Narratives of the Most Celebrated SeaRobbers.
by Charles Ellms
Originally published 1837

RhysMichael · 23rd July 2008, 07:23 PM

From DEWEY AND OTHER NAVAL COMMANDERS.
BY EDWARD S. ELLIS, A.M., Copyright, 1899

CAPTAIN BAINBRIDGE AND THE DEY OF ALGIERS

RhysMichael · 23rd July 2008, 11:01 PM

Last one for a bit lest you all get tired of me posting pictures

Khair ad Din AKA One of the Barbarosa Brothers from a work reference to be from Helen Chapin Metz

TVV · 24th July 2008, 05:27 AM

Here are two nimchas, from a Bulgarian private collection (unfortunately not mine), who have always struck me as very suitable for a pirate weapon. One of them is actually similar to the Hopsonn sword. I believe they were collected in Bulgaria - there must have been serious movement of people and weapons in the Ottoman Empire back in the day.

M ELEY · 24th July 2008, 06:17 AM

Wow! Nice nimcha! That top one is particularly amazing with its thickened point! I'd love to get my hands on that one. Rick (RSword) has a truly amazing nimcha that I had the opportunity of holding, with gold leaf inlay. Its amazing how many of these swords are very simple/utilitarian, while others are made of the finest materials. Thanks for sharing.

RhysMichael, that's for posting your pics. The one of the Joassamee pirate with the faux shamshir-type sword got me to thinking. I was complaining about seeing these mock-Persian swords in so many speculative pirate pics and always assumed they were just imaginative. But now, after seeing so many pics with the clipped point swords, I'm truly wondering if this drawing might in fact be alluding to the Berber sabers, with their clipped points? As I mentioned and Jim concurred, most of these seem to be mid-19th century (too late for our time period). Does anyone know of any earlier Berber sabers? Or am I looking too hard at this? I guess the sketches could be a stylized version of a kilij?

23rd July 2008, 01:12 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Crossbows were a common device among Berberes and Arabs. These are two examples extracted from ancient portolanos showing the flag of Béjaïa, a city and province in the Algerine Barbary Coast, where piracy was a way of life. Attached Images

23rd July 2008, 07:17 PM	#3
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	The Joassamee Pirates striking off the arm of Capt. Babcock. From THE PIRATES OWN BOOK Authentic Narratives of the Most Celebrated SeaRobbers. by Charles Ellms Originally published 1837 Attached Images

23rd July 2008, 07:23 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	From DEWEY AND OTHER NAVAL COMMANDERS. BY EDWARD S. ELLIS, A.M., Copyright, 1899 CAPTAIN BAINBRIDGE AND THE DEY OF ALGIERS Attached Images

23rd July 2008, 11:01 PM	#5
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Last one for a bit lest you all get tired of me posting pictures Khair ad Din AKA One of the Barbarosa Brothers from a work reference to be from Helen Chapin Metz Attached Images

23rd July 2008, 03:41 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Excellent information,gents! RhysMichael, great stuff! When I get more time, I'll look more deeply into the listed links. I'd read about Hoppson's exploits somewhere else, but never got to actually see the nimcha itself. It's nice to see one of this early dating matching its later counterparts exactly.Thanks! Fernando, thanks for the mention of crossbows. Fascinating! On the link that Rick attached, it does show a Corsair with a crossbow. When I first saw it (before reading your comment and seeing the reference to flags), I just figured it was another farsical European depiction of a Berber. Too cool! In thinking about it, it makes perfect sense. Firearms were fairly scarce for many of these poor pirats (except what they could capture from others-note the pic of Barbarossa above with the captured European sword). many of the Maghreb weapons were primitive matchlock devices, so a crossbow would be a welcome alternative. Likewise, it was a silent weapon. When Stephen Decatur snuck into Tripoli in 1804 to destroy the captured U.S. warship, it was under a veil of silence. He allowed his men no firearms in fear of an accidental ignition and all bladed arms had to remain sheathed as not to reflect moonlight and give away their position. In keeping with this theme, the crossbow would have been an ideal pirating weapon to sneak over the side of a ship with. Very cool!

24th July 2008, 05:27 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	Here are two nimchas, from a Bulgarian private collection (unfortunately not mine), who have always struck me as very suitable for a pirate weapon. One of them is actually similar to the Hopsonn sword. I believe they were collected in Bulgaria - there must have been serious movement of people and weapons in the Ottoman Empire back in the day.

24th July 2008, 06:17 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Wow! Nice nimcha! That top one is particularly amazing with its thickened point! I'd love to get my hands on that one. Rick (RSword) has a truly amazing nimcha that I had the opportunity of holding, with gold leaf inlay. Its amazing how many of these swords are very simple/utilitarian, while others are made of the finest materials. Thanks for sharing. RhysMichael, that's for posting your pics. The one of the Joassamee pirate with the faux shamshir-type sword got me to thinking. I was complaining about seeing these mock-Persian swords in so many speculative pirate pics and always assumed they were just imaginative. But now, after seeing so many pics with the clipped point swords, I'm truly wondering if this drawing might in fact be alluding to the Berber sabers, with their clipped points? As I mentioned and Jim concurred, most of these seem to be mid-19th century (too late for our time period). Does anyone know of any earlier Berber sabers? Or am I looking too hard at this? I guess the sketches could be a stylized version of a kilij?