Barung --- Origin?

Maurice · 19th July 2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

HI Maurice,

Sorry to chime in so late. Yes this is from the Sulu region and it is a rare type according to Cato. IT probably belonged to a chieftain. Braided bands are all over the Sulu region, and seems to be missing a little bit of it. There was originally more of a top plume to the back and beak to the front. MOP usually indicates a later period, perhaps 1900 or later.

Hi Jose,

Thank you for replying.
You are very right about the plume and the beak. Those particular parts broke off there. But it must have been a small plume cause it looks like a true fighting barung.
So the MOP could be probably a latter addition to the pommel?

Maurice

Rick · 19th July 2008, 09:42 PM

This example shows fairly diminuitive beak and plume .

Battara · 20th July 2008, 12:58 AM

I would not place this necessarily as a fighting barong, though I do think the pommel could be a later addition. However, the back part is severly broken off and there may have been more originally to it than what we see......

Rick, nice example.....

Rick · 20th July 2008, 02:18 AM

I've always wanted to re-lime the carvings Jose .

Somehow it wouldn't be right I think .

I think the barung we are discussing had a larger beak and crest .

The way to possibly date that piece may lie in the details of the hilt .
Cato has some theories on dating barungs by hilt carving style in his book Moro Swords .

I've got a feeling this hilt may be 19thC. updated/refurbished in the 20th .

Battara · 20th July 2008, 04:30 AM

I would tend to agree on the piece in question.

On being a "limey" (

) I think that would be fine....

Below is my barong which is similar. The inlay is ivory. Notice the tail plume and the beak. I imagine that yours was similar.

Maurice · 20th July 2008, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Below is my barong which is similar. The inlay is ivory. Notice the tail plume and the beak. I imagine that yours was similar.

That is a lovely piece. I thinks mine could look the same when the owner was not such a fierce fighter and broke of the beak and plume.

Such sort of kakatua also is depicted in the book of Cato page 38. Only I like yours more with those nice dots in the pommel, Jose.

Mine does also has dots, only they are in the middle of the MOP triangles with function of detaching the MOP to the pommel and not for decoration like yours I think.

kai · 20th July 2008, 10:15 AM

Hello Maurice,

Quote:

In the MOP you can see dots which probably holds the MOP. I don't know which material they are made of. Some have the colour of the wooden pommel (but more shiny) and other dots looks like MOP.

I'd agree that the wooden pins are for attaching the MOP as well as being decorative...

Noticeably lighter pins would probably be bone, I guess. Repairs?

Regards,
Kai

Maurice · 20th July 2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The way to possibly date that piece may lie in the details of the hilt .
Cato has some theories on dating barungs by hilt carving style in his book Moro Swords .

I've got a feeling this hilt may be 19thC. updated/refurbished in the 20th .

Could it be that the barung discussed has a very early use of MOP, or maybe the owner "pimped" his barung up later?
In the MOP you can see dots which probably holds the MOP. I don't know which material they are made of. Some have the colour of the wooden pommel (but more shiny) and other dots looks like MOP.

Maurice · 20th July 2008, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

This example shows fairly diminuitive beak and plume .

Thanks Rick for showing that picture. I like the silver braided wire on yours above the silver ferrule. And your tagub is in better shape.

Rick · 20th July 2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Thanks Rick for showing that picture. I like the silver braided wire on yours above the silver ferrule. And your tagub is in better shape.

Hi Maurice, that is not woven silver wire; it's cord (for good grip) that seems to have been coated with green lac of some sort .

kronckew · 20th July 2008, 06:32 PM

the MOP shapes fastened on a wooden pin or post must be a common moro decorative technique:

Kris hilt

Maurice · 20th July 2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

the MOP shapes fastened on a wooden pin or post must be a common moro decorative technique:
Kris hilt

Tnx for the picture !

kai · 20th July 2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

the MOP shapes fastened on a wooden pin or post must be a common moro decorative technique

Yup. It's the traditional way to attach halves of scabbards and other parts like pommels so it's bound to be also utilized in other/later applications.

MOP is too brittle so pins must be made from other materials.

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 20th July 2008, 11:04 PM

Kai to answer your question, mine is probably Tausug. I suspect that Maurice's is also based on the curve of the upper tail part (what's left) and the curve of the beak. Yakans are completely different and Samal are shorter and more abrupt in the okir. The only other possibility might be Tawi-Tawi or even (though more remotely) Borneo Moros.

One other note, I don't think this is a fighter piece. Ususally fighter's are not as ornately decorated due to battle conditions but are plainer.

On my tagub, it was originally in pieces - I had to do a lot of restoration in putting all the pieces together and even carving new parts to match. Below is a picture of the scabbard before I repaired it:

19th July 2008, 09:42 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	This example shows fairly diminuitive beak and plume . Attached Images

20th July 2008, 04:30 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I would tend to agree on the piece in question. On being a "limey" ( ) I think that would be fine.... Below is my barong which is similar. The inlay is ivory. Notice the tail plume and the beak. I imagine that yours was similar. Attached Images

20th July 2008, 11:04 PM	#14
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Kai to answer your question, mine is probably Tausug. I suspect that Maurice's is also based on the curve of the upper tail part (what's left) and the curve of the beak. Yakans are completely different and Samal are shorter and more abrupt in the okir. The only other possibility might be Tawi-Tawi or even (though more remotely) Borneo Moros. One other note, I don't think this is a fighter piece. Ususally fighter's are not as ornately decorated due to battle conditions but are plainer. On my tagub, it was originally in pieces - I had to do a lot of restoration in putting all the pieces together and even carving new parts to match. Below is a picture of the scabbard before I repaired it: Attached Images

20th July 2008, 12:58 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I would not place this necessarily as a fighting barong, though I do think the pommel could be a later addition. However, the back part is severly broken off and there may have been more originally to it than what we see...... Rick, nice example.....

20th July 2008, 02:18 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I've always wanted to re-lime the carvings Jose . Somehow it wouldn't be right I think . I think the barung we are discussing had a larger beak and crest . The way to possibly date that piece may lie in the details of the hilt . Cato has some theories on dating barungs by hilt carving style in his book Moro Swords . I've got a feeling this hilt may be 19thC. updated/refurbished in the 20th .

20th July 2008, 06:32 PM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	the MOP shapes fastened on a wooden pin or post must be a common moro decorative technique: Kris hilt