Shabria Dagger

Tim Simmons · 30th March 2005, 07:16 PM

They come out with it

The best one I heard ,when a chap trying to sell a badly cast Indian tourist market brass canon about 40 cm long,"it was the Maharajas signaling canon" this was at a militaria fare in the UK.Tim

Conogre · 30th March 2005, 07:29 PM

I'm still battling with the search from the old forum but Artzi posted a photo with about a dozen or so, showing the evolution form the older knives with a thinner blade to the newer ones that are much thicker and a pretty good commentary on them as well.
I also currently have three, one of each of the styles as they evolved and they are sweet little knives.
Mike

TVV · 30th March 2005, 11:44 PM

Conogre, I believe you are referring to the topic, to which I posted a link. In it, Artzi had put a picture of 10 shabrias, but after some changes to his website, the picture currently appears to be gone. This is too bad, as a few of them were really nice examples.

Aurangzeb · 31st March 2005, 01:11 AM

Hi Tim!

That is the Funniest story I have ever heard

! I have heard some pretty bad stories some sellers make up abouta item,but this by far takes the cake

...Considering brass is a terrible gun making material(To soft of a metal.).

Bye

Aurangzeb · 31st March 2005, 11:25 PM

Hi All!

Thanks for the help so far.The thing I am really concerned withis that:

A.) Is my estimation of it's age correct or not.(1930's or 1940's)
B.) Is my guess at it's provence of origen correct or not.(Palestine)

Thanks again for the help so far!

ariel · 1st April 2005, 01:51 AM

I don't know about your A question.
As to the B one, you are correct: a very, very typical Palestinian jambiya (shabariyya). They continue making them for the tourist market to this day.
This brings us back to A: I do not think anybody can establish it's accurate age with certainty. It would depend mostly on it's condition: older ones (say, before 195O) and will show some wear, the newer ones (bazaar pieces) will be quite pristine. Please remember: these are pretty rough and quite primitive weapons, with a lot of grinding marks, bad soldering, bends, kinks, uneven surfaces, holes etc. These can be confused with signs of aging, so be careful.
All in all, a very nice piece. If you start collecting at 13, you may get a real museum by 30.... I wish I could have started as early.....
All the best!

Aurangzeb · 1st April 2005, 11:29 PM

Thanks you very much Ariel, I very much appreciate all of the information you have provided to me regarding my Shabriyaa dagger ! Upon further, more intensive inspection of this dagger, I have found that in fact the front of the dagger and sheath are formed of silver, not tin as originally thought. My father checked it with too strong of a magnet that was actually being attracted to the tin back and thus givng the illusion that the front was also tin. I used a much weaker magnet and found no magnetic attraction to the frontal area of the dagger handle of sheath face ! The blade does show slight wear and tear from use, the sheath and handle are slightly dented. The back of the handle shows much discoloration of the tin surface from use. The blade exhibits longer and narrower qualities which seem to indicate that it is 'older', not of recent crafting. The throat of the sheath shows 'English' alphabet characters which leads me to believe it may be from the time Palestine was occupied by British Forces under British mandate. It shows much better qualities than most tourist pieces I have encountered. Can you please tell me if these were worn on the front of the belt like a Jambiya ? Perhaps this information will better qualify it's possible origination, your thoughts, as well a those of other forum members would be most welcomed and appreciated !

Thank you very much !

Mark.... a.k.a. Aurangzeb....

31st March 2005, 01:11 AM	#4
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Ha ha! Hi Tim! That is the Funniest story I have ever heard ! I have heard some pretty bad stories some sellers make up abouta item,but this by far takes the cake ...Considering brass is a terrible gun making material(To soft of a metal.). Bye Last edited by Aurangzeb; 31st March 2005 at 01:12 AM. Reason: Typo

1st April 2005, 11:29 PM	#7
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Shabriyaa Dagger - Upon Further Inspection.... Thanks you very much Ariel, I very much appreciate all of the information you have provided to me regarding my Shabriyaa dagger ! Upon further, more intensive inspection of this dagger, I have found that in fact the front of the dagger and sheath are formed of silver, not tin as originally thought. My father checked it with too strong of a magnet that was actually being attracted to the tin back and thus givng the illusion that the front was also tin. I used a much weaker magnet and found no magnetic attraction to the frontal area of the dagger handle of sheath face ! The blade does show slight wear and tear from use, the sheath and handle are slightly dented. The back of the handle shows much discoloration of the tin surface from use. The blade exhibits longer and narrower qualities which seem to indicate that it is 'older', not of recent crafting. The throat of the sheath shows 'English' alphabet characters which leads me to believe it may be from the time Palestine was occupied by British Forces under British mandate. It shows much better qualities than most tourist pieces I have encountered. Can you please tell me if these were worn on the front of the belt like a Jambiya ? Perhaps this information will better qualify it's possible origination, your thoughts, as well a those of other forum members would be most welcomed and appreciated ! Thank you very much ! Mark.... a.k.a. Aurangzeb....

30th March 2005, 07:16 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	They come out with it The best one I heard ,when a chap trying to sell a badly cast Indian tourist market brass canon about 40 cm long,"it was the Maharajas signaling canon" this was at a militaria fare in the UK.Tim

30th March 2005, 07:29 PM	#2
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	I'm still battling with the search from the old forum but Artzi posted a photo with about a dozen or so, showing the evolution form the older knives with a thinner blade to the newer ones that are much thicker and a pretty good commentary on them as well. I also currently have three, one of each of the styles as they evolved and they are sweet little knives. Mike

30th March 2005, 11:44 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Conogre, I believe you are referring to the topic, to which I posted a link. In it, Artzi had put a picture of 10 shabrias, but after some changes to his website, the picture currently appears to be gone. This is too bad, as a few of them were really nice examples.

31st March 2005, 11:25 PM	#5
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hi All! Thanks for the help so far.The thing I am really concerned withis that: A.) Is my estimation of it's age correct or not.(1930's or 1940's) B.) Is my guess at it's provence of origen correct or not.(Palestine) Thanks again for the help so far!

1st April 2005, 01:51 AM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I don't know about your A question. As to the B one, you are correct: a very, very typical Palestinian jambiya (shabariyya). They continue making them for the tourist market to this day. This brings us back to A: I do not think anybody can establish it's accurate age with certainty. It would depend mostly on it's condition: older ones (say, before 195O) and will show some wear, the newer ones (bazaar pieces) will be quite pristine. Please remember: these are pretty rough and quite primitive weapons, with a lot of grinding marks, bad soldering, bends, kinks, uneven surfaces, holes etc. These can be confused with signs of aging, so be careful. All in all, a very nice piece. If you start collecting at 13, you may get a real museum by 30.... I wish I could have started as early..... All the best!