Post Prices Please!

David · 8th July 2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

However in my perspective, there is a great difference between the Forum swap section and a business speculation web site.
I would risk to bet that, such swap section wasn't implemented for the members to buy things with the basic intention to come in there to sell them with a speculated profit, nor with the intent to only sell things to the member with the nicest eyes.

Thank you Fernando, i believe you have hit at the heart of the matter right here. We do not run an open marketplace here. It is a members only club. You might have noticed in fact, that the forum under discussion here is called the "Swap Forum". Now, i don't think anyone imagined that sales would not take place there as well and in fact more "sales" than "swaps" do occur. But as far as i can see this swap forum is a service for our members to help each other grow our collections or dispose of pieces when we decide to move on to something else or plan on trading up. Nothing irks me more than when dealers "join" our forum just so that they can start using the swap as their marketplace and hardly, if ever, make any posts on the regular discussion boards. As far as i am concerned, the cut-throat rules of marketplace advantage should be left at the door. I am not saying that a seller should take a bad deal for community sake, but a little transparency would go a long way in situations like this. We are a community here, and as far as i can tell from my surfing of the net, a rather unique one. IMHO we should treat each other just a little bit better that we would act in the marketplace at large.

ALEX · 8th July 2008, 05:11 PM

I've noticed some "trend" here when sellers asking for offers are challenged to name their price. Well, sometimes we have an idea, an estimate, but just as at ALL major auctions - they never considered as "price" per se. The price is determined by how much someone is willing to pay! I have some fantastic swords I'd offer for sale, but I'd never list them at a fixed price. So... "... I do not see anything wrong with asking for offers. If someone is interested in an item (really wants it!), and knows enough about it in terms of comparative market value - one should be able to make an intelligent offer and to negotiate it. It is a seller's right afterall to sell anyway he/she prefers without justifying his/her selling preferences".

David · 8th July 2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

I've noticed some "trend" here when sellers asking for offers are challenged to name their price. Well, sometimes we have an idea, an estimate, but just as at ALL major auctions - they never considered as "price" per se. The price is determined by how much someone is willing to pay! I have some fantastic swords I'd offer for sale, but I'd never list them at a fixed price. So... "... I do not see anything wrong with asking for offers. If someone is interested in an item (really wants it!), and knows enough about it in terms of comparative market value - one should be able to make an intelligent offer and to negotiate it. It is a seller's right afterall to sell anyway he/she prefers without justifying his/her selling preferences".

Did you read my post at all Alex?

I, for one, do not think that what goes on on our forum's swap forum should be anything like "ALL major auctions". And every collector here knows what they paid for an item, how much time, effort and perhaps money they put into restoration, if any, and has at least a ballpark figure in mind of what they are willing to take for the piece. If it's about "how do i get the most amount of money off my fellow collectors in this forum for this piece regardless of what it might be worth to me" then i think priorities for our swap forum have gone a bit askew....discuss.....

TVV · 8th July 2008, 06:06 PM

As far as I am concerned, it is up to the seller to decide whether to post a price or not. However, personally, if I do not see a price, I usually simply move on, as I am completely unwilling to bid against myself. From this thread it is becoming obvious that naming a price will significantly improve a seller's chances to find a buyer within this forum. So it is then up to the seller to decide whether he wants to go for a quicker, easier sale, or risk a silent auction where the price could be potentially higher, but where there also will be less interest. Nothing wrong with either option in my opinion.

Lew · 8th July 2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

I've noticed some "trend" here when sellers asking for offers are challenged to name their price. Well, sometimes we have an idea, an estimate, but just as at ALL major auctions - they never considered as "price" per se. The price is determined by how much someone is willing to pay! I have some fantastic swords I'd offer for sale, but I'd never list them at a fixed price. So... "... I do not see anything wrong with asking for offers. If someone is interested in an item (really wants it!), and knows enough about it in terms of comparative market value - one should be able to make an intelligent offer and to negotiate it. It is a seller's right afterall to sell anyway he/she prefers without justifying his/her selling preferences".

Alex

The seller has the right if that person has their own website but this forum is not in that business and we are not an auction house. We are just a group that exchange ideas and information in an open and transparent way. Having blind bidding on an item to get the highest price for profit is not what this forum's mission was originally intended for. I really don't understand why a member who has a good grip on what the prices in todays market are can't post what he or she thinks is a solid price.

Lew

fernando · 8th July 2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

I've noticed some "trend" here when sellers asking for offers are challenged to name their price. Well, sometimes we have an idea, an estimate, but just as at ALL major auctions - they never considered as "price" per se. The price is determined by how much someone is willing to pay! I have some fantastic swords I'd offer for sale, but I'd never list them at a fixed price. So... "... I do not see anything wrong with asking for offers. If someone is interested in an item (really wants it!), and knows enough about it in terms of comparative market value - one should be able to make an intelligent offer and to negotiate it. It is a seller's right afterall to sell anyway he/she prefers without justifying his/her selling preferences".

Hi Alex
Puting things that way, this would perhaps be an endless discussion. If we invert the situation, for example, the price could also be determined by how much someone is willing to sell it for. Whether we are interested in an item, depends mostly on its price; this is the difference between realy desiring it and realy wanting it ... if i make myself understood. Unless one is a tycoon, the decision to want something is inalienable from his capacity to pay for it ... unfortunately.
Certainly puting something on sale under secrecy of its price gives place to more speculation than in the contrary. Also when somebody sugests that posting the article's price gives a possibility for people be aware of its value update, without necessarily wanting to buy it, it's precisely the same the other way round; who can tell that the seller is not invinting people to make offers in order to evaluate the stuff, prior to deciding to sell it ?
My primary thaught when i visit the swap forum to see if there is something i want (and can afford) to buy, is that i am acquiring the item on a membership basis, free of speculation; so i don't have to be an expert in auction licitations, as i am not afraid i will be taken for a ride. My beleive is that forum members are more comited to transparency, not only on what touches fair prices but also, which is not less important, to describe the quality and age of the item with the isention proper of a (this) Forum atmosphere.
But of course, these are no more than points of view.
Fernando

Maurice · 8th July 2008, 06:42 PM

My opinion is that member collectors can offer their pieces any way they want to, cause everybody has his own "style".
Some sellers like to get an offer, some have prices listed, and others only want to swap!
One need to respect that!
That is the same of the membercollectors buying. Some like to make an offer, some want prices and others like to swap.
So I see it like a kind of sports!
I think there should no need to envy a fellow membercollector about "snatching" a piece in which you were interested.
I don't mind when it goes to another fellow collector, who offered more than I did.

If there is no "click" between seller and buyer, I even don't want to have the piece even if it was made of gold and when I am the seller I don't want to sell it to that person.

And you can turn it you want, but it still stays in the posession of the sellers till the deal is made. Till than you can always drop out if you don't trust the seller or there is no "click", but you never can deceide about an item that you didn't pay for yet.

My best collecting pieces I have are bought from sellers I respect and trust.
When possible I even pay them a visit to drink some coffee with pie

, or eat Surinam food

.

As a matter of fact I had an item bought some weeks ago from ebay of one of the most respected seller in my eyes, and than he put much money off the price I offered him. He didn't want to get the highest price. That is collecting fun with respect!!!!
If one respect eachother, you will see it will be a lot easier to get pieces you want.

HAPPY COLLECTING!!

Dajak · 8th July 2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

I've noticed some "trend" here when sellers asking for offers are challenged to name their price. Well, sometimes we have an idea, an estimate, but just as at ALL major auctions - they never considered as "price" per se. The price is determined by how much someone is willing to pay! I have some fantastic swords I'd offer for sale, but I'd never list them at a fixed price. So... "... I do not see anything wrong with asking for offers. If someone is interested in an item (really wants it!), and knows enough about it in terms of comparative market value - one should be able to make an intelligent offer and to negotiate it. It is a seller's right afterall to sell anyway he/she prefers without justifying his/her selling preferences".

Alex do make a good point off it .

If I really want something I offer people money and ask them if they like it or I have to come with an better offer if I like it , and I really want it.

And to Maurice always nice to see you beside the food I will take you to the special museum next time that is the place where I did get my interest 36 years ago in collecting Indonesian stuff .
I like to hang around with an true collector like you .

Ben

ALEX · 9th July 2008, 10:49 AM

I agree with Ben, Maurice, TVV and few others - we should respect each other's selling preferences - sellers and buyers alike (and each other as well:-) - well done guys:-) No one should dictate or force no one to sell or trade according to anyone's preferences. I am not taking any sides, I am just promoting respect and equality for all members. Asking for offer is no harm in my view - forcing a seller to publicly name the price knowing that the seller prefers not to is impolite. If someone does not wish to participate in a silent auction - simply do not - no one forces you, but do not force the other side either:-)

fernando · 9th July 2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

I agree with Ben, Maurice, TVV and few others - we should respect each other's selling preferences - sellers and buyers alike (and each other as well:-) - well done guys:-) No one should dictate or force no one to sell or trade according to anyone's preferences. I am not taking any sides, I am just promoting respect and equality for all members. Asking for offer is no harm in my view - forcing a seller to publicly name the price knowing that the seller prefers not to is impolite. If someone does not wish to participate in a silent auction - simply do not - no one forces you, but do not force the other side either:-)

Hi Alex
You say you are not taking any sides

; i can not say the same, with all due respect for those afected

.
The way i view it, so called selling preferences, in places not dedicated to business (read speculation) should only be the ethical ones

.
I rather take it that, impolite is to put something for sale in a friendly forum without a price and still refuse to give it after your fellow members request

.
Silent (or any type of) auctions are perhaps out of context in a members only forum; this is probably a more pertinent reason for the respect issue ... at least for some.
What you probably mean by forcing is, in the worst, a figure of speech; i feel restrained from further coments on this one

.
Sorry Alex, don't take it wrong; i am only defending my dame. I am no business guru and i have never registered on eBay. I feel defenceless before certain exercises

Kind regards
Fernando

Maurice · 9th July 2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I am no business guru and i have never registered on eBay.

Hi Fernando,

That counts for me the same

Regards,
Maurice

Rick · 9th July 2008, 04:26 PM

This is just a thought that popped into my head while reading .

The purpose of these forums is to discuss, educate and further our collective knowledge of the subjects we study here .

Pricing methods in Swap that could result in a windfall for a Seller from a *naive Buyer* do not seem to be in the spirit of the forums as I see it .

Dajak · 9th July 2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

I agree with Ben, Maurice, TVV and few others - we should respect each other's selling preferences - sellers and buyers alike (and each other as well:-) - well done guys:-) No one should dictate or force no one to sell or trade according to anyone's preferences. I am not taking any sides, I am just promoting respect and equality for all members. Asking for offer is no harm in my view - forcing a seller to publicly name the price knowing that the seller prefers not to is impolite. If someone does not wish to participate in a silent auction - simply do not - no one forces you, but do not force the other side either:-)

This is an good thing respect and don't try to put your will on other people

because you don't like the way that they put no price on it .

Ben

Lew · 9th July 2008, 06:06 PM

So far it's 11 leaning towards posting and 5 against. I guess there will need to be an executive decision by the Forum staff as to what the future policy will be

Lew

Dajak · 9th July 2008, 07:29 PM

I don't think the Forum staff has to take an decision on this because this could lead to no more swap posting by some members .

It would be a shame if this gonna happen because some special stuff never get to the swap forum again .

Ben

8th July 2008, 06:42 PM	#7
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	My opinion is that member collectors can offer their pieces any way they want to, cause everybody has his own "style". Some sellers like to get an offer, some have prices listed, and others only want to swap! One need to respect that! That is the same of the membercollectors buying. Some like to make an offer, some want prices and others like to swap. So I see it like a kind of sports! I think there should no need to envy a fellow membercollector about "snatching" a piece in which you were interested. I don't mind when it goes to another fellow collector, who offered more than I did. If there is no "click" between seller and buyer, I even don't want to have the piece even if it was made of gold and when I am the seller I don't want to sell it to that person. And you can turn it you want, but it still stays in the posession of the sellers till the deal is made. Till than you can always drop out if you don't trust the seller or there is no "click", but you never can deceide about an item that you didn't pay for yet. My best collecting pieces I have are bought from sellers I respect and trust. When possible I even pay them a visit to drink some coffee with pie , or eat Surinam food . As a matter of fact I had an item bought some weeks ago from ebay of one of the most respected seller in my eyes, and than he put much money off the price I offered him. He didn't want to get the highest price. That is collecting fun with respect!!!! If one respect eachother, you will see it will be a lot easier to get pieces you want. HAPPY COLLECTING!! Last edited by Maurice; 8th July 2008 at 07:23 PM.

9th July 2008, 04:26 PM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	This is just a thought that popped into my head while reading . The purpose of these forums is to discuss, educate and further our collective knowledge of the subjects we study here . Pricing methods in Swap that could result in a windfall for a Seller from a naive Buyer do not seem to be in the spirit of the forums as I see it . Last edited by Rick; 9th July 2008 at 05:31 PM. Reason: Clarity

8th July 2008, 05:11 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I've noticed some "trend" here when sellers asking for offers are challenged to name their price. Well, sometimes we have an idea, an estimate, but just as at ALL major auctions - they never considered as "price" per se. The price is determined by how much someone is willing to pay! I have some fantastic swords I'd offer for sale, but I'd never list them at a fixed price. So... "... I do not see anything wrong with asking for offers. If someone is interested in an item (really wants it!), and knows enough about it in terms of comparative market value - one should be able to make an intelligent offer and to negotiate it. It is a seller's right afterall to sell anyway he/she prefers without justifying his/her selling preferences".

8th July 2008, 06:06 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,664	As far as I am concerned, it is up to the seller to decide whether to post a price or not. However, personally, if I do not see a price, I usually simply move on, as I am completely unwilling to bid against myself. From this thread it is becoming obvious that naming a price will significantly improve a seller's chances to find a buyer within this forum. So it is then up to the seller to decide whether he wants to go for a quicker, easier sale, or risk a silent auction where the price could be potentially higher, but where there also will be less interest. Nothing wrong with either option in my opinion.

9th July 2008, 10:49 AM	#9
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	I agree with Ben, Maurice, TVV and few others - we should respect each other's selling preferences - sellers and buyers alike (and each other as well:-) - well done guys:-) No one should dictate or force no one to sell or trade according to anyone's preferences. I am not taking any sides, I am just promoting respect and equality for all members. Asking for offer is no harm in my view - forcing a seller to publicly name the price knowing that the seller prefers not to is impolite. If someone does not wish to participate in a silent auction - simply do not - no one forces you, but do not force the other side either:-)

9th July 2008, 06:06 PM	#14
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	So far it's 11 leaning towards posting and 5 against. I guess there will need to be an executive decision by the Forum staff as to what the future policy will be Lew

9th July 2008, 07:29 PM	#15
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	I don't think the Forum staff has to take an decision on this because this could lead to no more swap posting by some members . It would be a shame if this gonna happen because some special stuff never get to the swap forum again . Ben