Strange piece back, for coments

katana · 2nd July 2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Gentlemen, i'm afraid i am still far from solving this riddle. Somebody out there sugested it could be a flensing ( whaling) knife but, so far, no evidence shown.

Thanks for the picture and the link, David. I am impressed with those endless poles, looking like they are composed of various sections tied to eachother. However decidedly not the sort of the piece i am questioning on, right ?

Fernando

Hi Fernando,
Flensing knives also have long handles. Wooden handled whaling implements often had the handles replaced regularly (salt water/moisture damage) and therefore would only be 'crudely' made. However, yours is a socketted fitting sugesting that this indeed at some time the blade was mounted on a pole or longer handle. The lack of heavy pitting (seen on many whaling impliments) suggests little contact with the sea.

http://www.historyshelf.org/secf/whale/13.php

The Malaysian Parang Ginah is often described as a sickle/sword perhaps your example is a similar implement (ie agricultural/weapon) or had a shorter handle fitted so it could be used as such

Regards David

.

fearn · 3rd July 2008, 02:20 AM

Hi Fernando,

I may be prejudiced, but I know one or two things about cutting up whales. One of the big points is that, if it was used as a flensing knife, you could probably smell the dead whale on the blade. It's quite hard to get that smell off. Also, flensers are basically glaives, and they are sharpened on the outer curver (think oversized butcher knife).

Does this artifact qualify by smell? I'd gotten the impression that it was sharp on the inner curve.

Maybe it's a royal banana thwacker from some smaller kingdom somewhere.

F

fernando · 4th July 2008, 07:35 PM

Thank you David.
I have been through the Parang Ginah hipothesis. Still i don't think that is it.

Thank you Fearn.
I am glad i smell nothing coming out of the piece ... for the various reasons.
Now, if this were a royal banana thwacker, it would take a big king to handle it properly

I am desperate i didn't yet see something actually similar or resembling this thing

Fernando

Lew · 11th July 2008, 03:04 AM

This could a form of Arit?

Lew

fernando · 11th July 2008, 05:50 PM

Thanks for your efforts Lew

; that's quite close. I'll dig into it.
Fernando

katana · 11th July 2008, 08:52 PM

Well done Lew,
checking on the Arit, I found a Balinese site which stated Arit (sickle). Then I found this about the Arit and several other tools...

"...The items shown below are not really weapons, they are tools, however, when disputes arise
today and the people involved feel that they need to settle these disputes with violence, these
tools are the implements most used as weapons. In fact, in Central Jawa today it is probably
correct to say that more people are killed and wounded with the type of tools shown here than
with any other form of weapon....."

However also on this site is this a Celurit from Madura listed as a weapon.... picture below

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/weaponsindexlist53.html

Regards David

fernando · 12th July 2008, 12:53 AM

Hi David
I have also been in that page, after learning the term Arit.
Eventually the Celurit shown (same you show here) seems to be more like my example than the two Arits represented there.
But on the other hand, the Arit shown in Lews picture looks even closer, due to its blade angle not being so close.
Do you guys realy beleive my piece belongs to this family, or is it just because of the sickle shape relation?
Fernando

Billman · 7th November 2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Fernando,
However, yours is a socketted fitting sugesting that this indeed at some time the blade was mounted on a pole or longer handle. Regards David.

Not all socketed tools had long handles, e.g. English billhooks with sockets from Kent, Hertfordshire and Rutland

Not all socketed tools had any handle fitted at all - the socket was the handle, e.g. French and Italian billhooks from the Alpine regions (Piemonte)...
also those from China and Medieval England: http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/t1977...me-curieux.htm

Tools similar to this can be found in the collection of the Dutch Ethnographic Museum (Rijksmuseum) at Leiden: http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/collectie/

11th July 2008, 03:04 AM	#4
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	This could a form of Arit? Lew Attached Images

11th July 2008, 08:52 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Well done Lew, checking on the Arit, I found a Balinese site which stated Arit (sickle). Then I found this about the Arit and several other tools... "...The items shown below are not really weapons, they are tools, however, when disputes arise today and the people involved feel that they need to settle these disputes with violence, these tools are the implements most used as weapons. In fact, in Central Jawa today it is probably correct to say that more people are killed and wounded with the type of tools shown here than with any other form of weapon....." However also on this site is this a Celurit from Madura listed as a weapon.... picture below http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/weaponsindexlist53.html Regards David Attached Images

3rd July 2008, 02:20 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Fernando, I may be prejudiced, but I know one or two things about cutting up whales. One of the big points is that, if it was used as a flensing knife, you could probably smell the dead whale on the blade. It's quite hard to get that smell off. Also, flensers are basically glaives, and they are sharpened on the outer curver (think oversized butcher knife). Does this artifact qualify by smell? I'd gotten the impression that it was sharp on the inner curve. Maybe it's a royal banana thwacker from some smaller kingdom somewhere. F

4th July 2008, 07:35 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you David. I have been through the Parang Ginah hipothesis. Still i don't think that is it. Thank you Fearn. I am glad i smell nothing coming out of the piece ... for the various reasons. Now, if this were a royal banana thwacker, it would take a big king to handle it properly I am desperate i didn't yet see something actually similar or resembling this thing Fernando

11th July 2008, 05:50 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thanks for your efforts Lew ; that's quite close. I'll dig into it. Fernando

12th July 2008, 12:53 AM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David I have also been in that page, after learning the term Arit. Eventually the Celurit shown (same you show here) seems to be more like my example than the two Arits represented there. But on the other hand, the Arit shown in Lews picture looks even closer, due to its blade angle not being so close. Do you guys realy beleive my piece belongs to this family, or is it just because of the sickle shape relation? Fernando