BANGKINANG & BAHARI kerises?

Amuk Murugul · 23rd June 2008, 11:32 AM

Hullo again,

I was in a hurry before and made a mistake.
Assuming a bedor/paksi/tang of 12-13cm., both blades can be called 'Bangkinang' based on length only.
Also:
Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.
But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.

About keris executions:

Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris.
Execution was done from the back.

With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

Best

ganjawulung · 23rd June 2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

...Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Yes, it has a kind of "tikel alis" shaped like an inverted comma near the gandhik. I will post the clearer pics later tommorrow. The blade is too heavily etched with warangan...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa?
Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris?

I am not sure, whether this is a Peninsular version or keris "Jawa Wetan" as you just mentioned. And the shorter keris, I don't think the shorter is javanese kind.The form of "greneng" is not javanese at all. Usually, javanese kerises have "dha" form greneng (like "dha" character in javanese alphabet). And this not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory.
About keris executions:
Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris. Execution was done from the back.
With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area.
That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone.

That's what I meant, Kang Amuk. Dugong tusk ivory... Thank you for the useful information on "keris penyalang"...

Ganjawulung

ganjawulung · 25th June 2008, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form.

Picture from the gandik part of the blade. Like an inverted comma...

Amuk Murugul · 25th June 2008, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

Picture from the gandik part of the blade. Like an inverted comma...

Hullo again,

Is that a ridge/backbone I see running along the middle of the blade?
If it is, then I wouldn't call it a traditional Bangkinang but I would settle for a panjang/penyalang.

Best.

PenangsangII · 25th June 2008, 07:33 AM

Thank you Amuk, all this while I was thinking that bangkinang, alang, panjang were just names depending on where the keris was found. I'm interested to know more about keris bangkinang that has flat tang in the middle section. And it would be very interesting to know that this type was the Minang's answer to Portuguese rapier. From the information you gathered along the way, was there any description on how the bangkinang keris was used against the rapier? Was it used by the Minang ppl similar to the way the Portuguese used their rapiers?

Thank you in advance.

rasdan · 26th June 2008, 09:38 AM

Hello everybody,

In the state of Perak this type of keris are also known as Baur. If i'm not mistaken, it's an Acheh word according to our forumite Raja Muda. He heard it during his trip there.

http://www.perak.gov.my/sultan/english/baur.htm

ganjawulung · 27th June 2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

In the state of Perak this type of keris are also known as Baur. If i'm not mistaken, it's an Acheh word according to our forumite Raja Muda. He heard it during his trip there.

Beautiful pieces of pusakas. Were all the pusaka blades made by olden local smith? Or from somewhere else? But the sheath was localised. I see that the two last pieces, look like Mindanao sundang...

Amuk Murugul · 27th June 2008, 11:40 AM

Hullo everybody,

Firstly, I am sorry for making a mistake earlier on. What I meant was that the hilt is 12-13 cm.The tang would be about 10 cm.
BTW... the hilt was traditionally curved and conical, tapering toward the nggania (base of blade); variations such as Tapak Koeda etc. was influenced by this keris' popularity in other regions.

I must say again that the Bangkinang was not developed to COMBAT the rapier; rather, it was as the result of the locals being impressed by the rapier i.e. their adaptation of it.

The Bangkinang would not have been used in the same way as a rapier. It would have been a mainly stabbing/thrusting weapon ( similar to the Soenda Pedang Tewek, which in turn was similar to a rapier, with a very slender blade but slightly curved toward its sharp inner edge).

FYI ... Bangkinang has strong links with the peninsula: e.g. the sultan of Melaka sought sanctuary there when he fled from the Portuguese; Datuk Bahaman/Seman Tanah of Pahang was of Bangkinang blood. Maybe more info can be gleaned from these areas.

Earlier I said I was suspicious about the shorter blade. It reminds me of the long straight keris from the Tengger, Eastern Java area (whose form has been extant since the 12th. - 13th. century and which also has a spine along the middle of the blade).

I'm sorry I can't be of further help.

Best.

23rd June 2008, 11:32 AM	#1
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Hullo again, I was in a hurry before and made a mistake. Assuming a bedor/paksi/tang of 12-13cm., both blades can be called 'Bangkinang' based on length only. Also: Cannot see from pictures, but if the gandi (front part of base of blade) of the longer one has a tikel halis/eyebrow shaped like an inverted comma, then it has the 'Bangkinang' form. But, the thick tang makes me ask: maybe it is a Peninsular version ... or a revised keris ageung/large Wetan/Jawa? Bahari should have the same form as Bangkinang, just shorter. So I am suspicious of the shorter one. Is it Bali/Jawa keris? By 'duyung teeth', I assume you mean the male Dugong tusk ivory. About keris executions: Traditionally keris executions were done with keris as a mark of respect and with no specific form of such keris. Execution was done from the back. With the long keris, execution was done from the collar-bone area. That is why the long keris is called 'penyalang', from the word 'salang'... a corruption of the word sasalang/clavicle/collar-bone. Best

25th June 2008, 07:33 AM	#5
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Thank you Amuk, all this while I was thinking that bangkinang, alang, panjang were just names depending on where the keris was found. I'm interested to know more about keris bangkinang that has flat tang in the middle section. And it would be very interesting to know that this type was the Minang's answer to Portuguese rapier. From the information you gathered along the way, was there any description on how the bangkinang keris was used against the rapier? Was it used by the Minang ppl similar to the way the Portuguese used their rapiers? Thank you in advance.

26th June 2008, 09:38 AM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hello everybody, In the state of Perak this type of keris are also known as Baur. If i'm not mistaken, it's an Acheh word according to our forumite Raja Muda. He heard it during his trip there. http://www.perak.gov.my/sultan/english/baur.htm

27th June 2008, 11:40 AM	#8
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Hullo everybody, Firstly, I am sorry for making a mistake earlier on. What I meant was that the hilt is 12-13 cm.The tang would be about 10 cm. BTW... the hilt was traditionally curved and conical, tapering toward the nggania (base of blade); variations such as Tapak Koeda etc. was influenced by this keris' popularity in other regions. I must say again that the Bangkinang was not developed to COMBAT the rapier; rather, it was as the result of the locals being impressed by the rapier i.e. their adaptation of it. The Bangkinang would not have been used in the same way as a rapier. It would have been a mainly stabbing/thrusting weapon ( similar to the Soenda Pedang Tewek, which in turn was similar to a rapier, with a very slender blade but slightly curved toward its sharp inner edge). FYI ... Bangkinang has strong links with the peninsula: e.g. the sultan of Melaka sought sanctuary there when he fled from the Portuguese; Datuk Bahaman/Seman Tanah of Pahang was of Bangkinang blood. Maybe more info can be gleaned from these areas. Earlier I said I was suspicious about the shorter blade. It reminds me of the long straight keris from the Tengger, Eastern Java area (whose form has been extant since the 12th. - 13th. century and which also has a spine along the middle of the blade). I'm sorry I can't be of further help. Best.