Maranao Sundang

Tim Simmons · 20th June 2008, 06:39 PM

I have one of these Kriss. not as fancy and with a straight blade. It has the same tang {replacement?} work and finer to my mind. What bothers me is this idea of a broken or replaced tang when there appears to absolutly no evidence of heavy use on the blade. Surely to damage the tang to the degree of replacing would reflect else where on the weapon

?

A great many broken tangs might suggest rubbish weapons or this is a construction technique

. We do see them rather frequently? with undamaged blades?

Rick · 20th June 2008, 07:08 PM

A sharp blow from the side is about all I can think of that would cause tang failure .

Hey Bill, while you've got your camera out ....
Make with some closeup piccys of the hilt trim willya ?

Also I'd like to hear your comments seeing as how you're the instigator of this thread .

Rick

Bill M · 3rd July 2008, 01:08 AM

I like the unusual pamor, the exceptional condition of the katik (upper and lower) and the repair. (The other side is much smoother.)

baganing_balyan · 3rd July 2008, 03:22 AM

Was this sword sold to you as an old kris? If it was, actually it is not. Old krises do not have varnished ratan strips if they were used as decorative bands. The handle head was also varnished.

This kris is recent due to the incorporations of different designs from different muslim communities. I am pretty sure that this is the kind of kris that is made in Lanao nowadays mostly for decoration and for a foreign collector.

Battara · 3rd July 2008, 03:30 AM

I again disagree - the bands appear to have patina, and varnishing is not that uncommon on wood - not a recent creation. Also I have seen and handled the things coming out of Lanao in recent years - this does not match those at all and the blade construction is laminated whereas those from Lanao are monosteel.

baganing_balyan · 3rd July 2008, 03:55 AM

Bill already said it's a Maranao sword. Maranaos are form Lanao.

Show me a photo of a kris collected years ago with a cherry-varnished handle head. I would love to see it since I believe there were cherry-colored tree/woods before, not red lawaan, that are extinct now and I also believed that resin and some gluey sap were used as varnish because some lumad kids still polish their nails using them.

Battara · 3rd July 2008, 04:26 AM

I did have one years ago from a US vet that fought at the battle of Bud Bagsak in 1915 with the same red color pommel - I will have to look to see if I have a photo....

The narra tree is red on the deeper inside and often it's burl was used to make pommels......

David · 3rd July 2008, 04:31 AM

Well Bill, i don't need to tell you that this is obviously an older kris and that it is certainly not "the kind of kris that is made in Lanao nowadays mostly for decoration and for a foreign collector". I think that any serious collector can see that as well. Judging the age of the kris based on the rattan bands is just ridiculous. It is the blade that one must judge the kris by, not the dress, which has obviously had some repairs and adjustments over the years. I doubt, for instance, that the rattan bands were original to this kris. The pommel my have very well been changed as well. Who knows. We can see that the back asang-asang is newer than the front one. This is the nature of a sword that has seen real use. It has different repairs and different adaptaions from different periods of it's life. It is interesting that the person who linked us to a website of a man standing in front of a wall full of decorative tourist punals which she claimed to be real kris thinks that this kris is a tourist piece.

20th June 2008, 06:39 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Question I have one of these Kriss. not as fancy and with a straight blade. It has the same tang {replacement?} work and finer to my mind. What bothers me is this idea of a broken or replaced tang when there appears to absolutly no evidence of heavy use on the blade. Surely to damage the tang to the degree of replacing would reflect else where on the weapon ? A great many broken tangs might suggest rubbish weapons or this is a construction technique . We do see them rather frequently? with undamaged blades? Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 20th June 2008 at 07:06 PM. Reason: adding pics

20th June 2008, 07:08 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	A sharp blow from the side is about all I can think of that would cause tang failure . Hey Bill, while you've got your camera out .... Make with some closeup piccys of the hilt trim willya ? Also I'd like to hear your comments seeing as how you're the instigator of this thread . Rick

3rd July 2008, 01:08 AM	#3
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	I like the unusual pamor, the exceptional condition of the katik (upper and lower) and the repair. (The other side is much smoother.)

3rd July 2008, 03:22 AM	#4
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	Was this sword sold to you as an old kris? If it was, actually it is not. Old krises do not have varnished ratan strips if they were used as decorative bands. The handle head was also varnished. This kris is recent due to the incorporations of different designs from different muslim communities. I am pretty sure that this is the kind of kris that is made in Lanao nowadays mostly for decoration and for a foreign collector.

3rd July 2008, 03:30 AM	#5
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I again disagree - the bands appear to have patina, and varnishing is not that uncommon on wood - not a recent creation. Also I have seen and handled the things coming out of Lanao in recent years - this does not match those at all and the blade construction is laminated whereas those from Lanao are monosteel.

3rd July 2008, 03:55 AM	#6
baganing_balyan Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 89	Bill already said it's a Maranao sword. Maranaos are form Lanao. Show me a photo of a kris collected years ago with a cherry-varnished handle head. I would love to see it since I believe there were cherry-colored tree/woods before, not red lawaan, that are extinct now and I also believed that resin and some gluey sap were used as varnish because some lumad kids still polish their nails using them.

3rd July 2008, 04:26 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I did have one years ago from a US vet that fought at the battle of Bud Bagsak in 1915 with the same red color pommel - I will have to look to see if I have a photo.... The narra tree is red on the deeper inside and often it's burl was used to make pommels......

3rd July 2008, 04:31 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Well Bill, i don't need to tell you that this is obviously an older kris and that it is certainly not "the kind of kris that is made in Lanao nowadays mostly for decoration and for a foreign collector". I think that any serious collector can see that as well. Judging the age of the kris based on the rattan bands is just ridiculous. It is the blade that one must judge the kris by, not the dress, which has obviously had some repairs and adjustments over the years. I doubt, for instance, that the rattan bands were original to this kris. The pommel my have very well been changed as well. Who knows. We can see that the back asang-asang is newer than the front one. This is the nature of a sword that has seen real use. It has different repairs and different adaptaions from different periods of it's life. It is interesting that the person who linked us to a website of a man standing in front of a wall full of decorative tourist punals which she claimed to be real kris thinks that this kris is a tourist piece.