Crucible Steel ?

tom hyle · 26th March 2005, 06:51 PM

Rick, this might be real wierd on a wootz blade, which I think this looks like, but doesn't that almost have the look of an inlaid edge? It could be smooth from sharpening, but I seem to see an etched dividing line? Where is the scientist formerly known as Moltenmuse? Sorry Ann; I liked your old name

Rick · 26th March 2005, 07:00 PM

Ann , thanks for your input .

Tom , I don't think the edge has been inserted , some of the homogenous areas are quite wide .
I was thinking more of the edge hardening process making the pattern disappear .

This is a pretty crazy pattern for a laminar welding process IMO .

Now this is a laminar forged Yat. blade and you can see the layering right up to the edge .

Then again I'm no genius about this stuff , all I do is push a broom around here and try to learn .

tom hyle · 26th March 2005, 07:07 PM

Whew! I thought at first that was a new view of the same sword, & was gonna say now it DOES look like lamination; always good to read the whole thing!

Ann, we were going at the same time

Rick, I thought that, too; that the pattern is very fine-grained and awfully "randomly" active for laminate. Of course, I defer to Ann on this subject, and I'm far from certain; in person, maybe. Would hardening heat remove the pattern? I could see it would change it, but I thought it took more like welding heat (much hotter) to remove it?

Rick · 26th March 2005, 07:25 PM

Sorry for creating confusion there Tom .

The new picture is of a Balkan or Greek Yataghan .

Both of these blades have been strongly etched .

I don't want to digress but the Yataghan blade shown has many areas that show a crystalline look .

I'm sadly ignorant of the effects of differing heats during forging .

I think I was sleeping during class .

Jens Nordlunde · 26th March 2005, 10:35 PM

Rick, is the pattern VERY different along the blade?
Is it possible for you to show it?

Jens

Rick · 26th March 2005, 11:06 PM

Hi Jens , I think I'll try to give this sword a light etch in the next couple of days then I'll try some more pictures . The pattern is not consistent over the length of the blade .
Stay tuned .

RSWORD · 28th March 2005, 01:24 AM

I am far from an expert on blade metallurgy but thought I would give my .02. I don't believe it is an artificially created damascus pattern, ie, wax resist and created via acid. The pattern is too random for that in my opinion. I also do not believe the blade is wootz. However, wootz can be melted away either during the forging of the blade or while differentially heat treating a blade. If the temperature is not controlled throughout the forging process, you can have "dead spots". What I am seeing on the blade almost looks like "hada" that you see on a Japanese sword. Perhaps this is a folded blade with a heat treated edge and what you are seeing on the blade is the grain of the steel from the folding and then the heat treatment has created sort of a "hamon" along the edge.

26th March 2005, 07:00 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Ann , thanks for your input . Tom , I don't think the edge has been inserted , some of the homogenous areas are quite wide . I was thinking more of the edge hardening process making the pattern disappear . This is a pretty crazy pattern for a laminar welding process IMO . Now this is a laminar forged Yat. blade and you can see the layering right up to the edge . Then again I'm no genius about this stuff , all I do is push a broom around here and try to learn . Attached Images

26th March 2005, 06:51 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Rick, this might be real wierd on a wootz blade, which I think this looks like, but doesn't that almost have the look of an inlaid edge? It could be smooth from sharpening, but I seem to see an etched dividing line? Where is the scientist formerly known as Moltenmuse? Sorry Ann; I liked your old name

26th March 2005, 07:07 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Whew! I thought at first that was a new view of the same sword, & was gonna say now it DOES look like lamination; always good to read the whole thing! Ann, we were going at the same time Rick, I thought that, too; that the pattern is very fine-grained and awfully "randomly" active for laminate. Of course, I defer to Ann on this subject, and I'm far from certain; in person, maybe. Would hardening heat remove the pattern? I could see it would change it, but I thought it took more like welding heat (much hotter) to remove it?

26th March 2005, 07:25 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Sorry for creating confusion there Tom . The new picture is of a Balkan or Greek Yataghan . Both of these blades have been strongly etched . I don't want to digress but the Yataghan blade shown has many areas that show a crystalline look . I'm sadly ignorant of the effects of differing heats during forging . I think I was sleeping during class .

26th March 2005, 10:35 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Rick, is the pattern VERY different along the blade? Is it possible for you to show it? Jens

26th March 2005, 11:06 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Hi Jens , I think I'll try to give this sword a light etch in the next couple of days then I'll try some more pictures . The pattern is not consistent over the length of the blade . Stay tuned .

28th March 2005, 01:24 AM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	I am far from an expert on blade metallurgy but thought I would give my .02. I don't believe it is an artificially created damascus pattern, ie, wax resist and created via acid. The pattern is too random for that in my opinion. I also do not believe the blade is wootz. However, wootz can be melted away either during the forging of the blade or while differentially heat treating a blade. If the temperature is not controlled throughout the forging process, you can have "dead spots". What I am seeing on the blade almost looks like "hada" that you see on a Japanese sword. Perhaps this is a folded blade with a heat treated edge and what you are seeing on the blade is the grain of the steel from the folding and then the heat treatment has created sort of a "hamon" along the edge.