Keris Holders

A. G. Maisey · 23rd May 2008, 12:19 AM

Cecas, herewith my interpolated responses to your questions.

I do not hold myself forth to be an authority in this particular field, but I do have very lengthy experience with the subject, and what I write below should be considered to be opinion based upon + 50 years experience. This does not mean that this opinion is incontrovertibly correct.

#1) I was told by a collector in California that Balinese Kris holders always have square bottoms-Does anyone know this to be -False?

False.
See the photos I have posted; these are all recent carvings, the oldest is only about 35 years old, but I have seen much older holders that have both square and round bases.

#2) For anyone who has traveled to Bali, have you observed specific deities used only for holders ? (not those produced for tourists, but rather traditional holders)

It is difficult, if not impossible to find holders that have not been produced with the tourist market in mind. Yes, certainly they may be produced for local buyers as well, but since the biggest market sector in this field is people from outside Bali, the requirements of these people must take precedence. Bear this in mind:- if a carver puts his time into something, he needs to sell it; if he limits his market to only local buyers he and his family will starve to death.

#3) Does anyone on this site own a holder dating further back than 1920? (Could I get a peek at it?)

The basic principle in Balinese thought is that it is the creation of the work that is important, not its preservation. Thus, if an image of Ganesha is created, Ganesha has been honoured by being created:- preservation of that creation is not important. The constant renewal of shrines and temples is evidence of devotion, not the attempt to retain forever something that has already been created. Because of this cultural mindset, it is very seldom that we will encounter truly old examples of Balinese artistic endeavour in Bali itself.This applies most particularly to those things that could be considered as household items, or as folk art. Combine the mindset with tropical weather and rapacious insects that can destroy a piece of wood almost overnight, and the end result is that we need to look for old examples of Balinese art outside Bali itself. You may find Urs Ramseyer's "The Art and Culture of Bali" to be useful; several older keris holders are shown in this book, I don't think the dates are given, but their location is given, so it might be possible to ascertain a date.

#4) Last but not least, the question still remains, aside from the, Berman Museum, the Met, & Farrow Fine Art Gallery, does anyone know of a US Museum or Gallery that has holders in its collection?

Cecas, your interest is apparently exclusive to keris holders extant in the US. You should be aware that I am in Australia, as are the keris holders of which I have provided photos.

In response to "The Demon Frog", I have discovered in many cases the frog is a substitute for the tuber of the lotus flower. Then when a kris is placed in the stand, the shaft is to represent the lotus stalk. From there I have read that the meaning is purely symbolic with references to the male and female principles, magically united and thus forming the origin of all creation.

Interpretation of iconographic motifs can be a very dangerous pursuit.Most particularly so in respect of iconographic motifs that originate in a culture and time frame that varies from our own.

In respect of the beautiful Green Lady in the post of 19 May, I think that possibly she may be able to be interpreted as Bhatari Durga, rather than Rangda.

TVV · 23rd May 2008, 12:38 AM

Quote:

#4) Last but not least, the question still remains, aside from the, Berman Museum, the Met, & Farrow Fine Art Gallery, does anyone know of a US Museum or Gallery that has holders in its collection?

If I remember correctly, there is a holder or two in the Asian Art Museum in San Francisco (along with some nice keris).

asomotif · 17th June 2008, 12:43 PM

I don not own any keris holders, but never the less have some knowlegde to share.
IMHO there are keris holders that appear to be from bali, but the hole in it is sometimes even to small to fit the smallest of javanese keris.
For me that is an indication that these are made for tourist / export market.

About nine years ago I bought a wooden statue of a chinese looking boy, laying on his back with his hands behind his head.
With his feet he was playing with a bal.
He was wearing only a jacket and no trousers.
The space between his legs was the perfect sice to hold a balinese keris that would than lean aways from the boy in such a way that the boy was looking at the keris.
The statue was not old, but well made.
Sad enough I was not interested in keris at that time and I sold it again.

I have seen more examples of chinese boys as keris holders.
Any info on that from other forumites ?

Good luck and best regards,
Willem

23rd May 2008, 12:19 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Cecas, herewith my interpolated responses to your questions. I do not hold myself forth to be an authority in this particular field, but I do have very lengthy experience with the subject, and what I write below should be considered to be opinion based upon + 50 years experience. This does not mean that this opinion is incontrovertibly correct. #1) I was told by a collector in California that Balinese Kris holders always have square bottoms-Does anyone know this to be -False? False. See the photos I have posted; these are all recent carvings, the oldest is only about 35 years old, but I have seen much older holders that have both square and round bases. #2) For anyone who has traveled to Bali, have you observed specific deities used only for holders ? (not those produced for tourists, but rather traditional holders) It is difficult, if not impossible to find holders that have not been produced with the tourist market in mind. Yes, certainly they may be produced for local buyers as well, but since the biggest market sector in this field is people from outside Bali, the requirements of these people must take precedence. Bear this in mind:- if a carver puts his time into something, he needs to sell it; if he limits his market to only local buyers he and his family will starve to death. #3) Does anyone on this site own a holder dating further back than 1920? (Could I get a peek at it?) The basic principle in Balinese thought is that it is the creation of the work that is important, not its preservation. Thus, if an image of Ganesha is created, Ganesha has been honoured by being created:- preservation of that creation is not important. The constant renewal of shrines and temples is evidence of devotion, not the attempt to retain forever something that has already been created. Because of this cultural mindset, it is very seldom that we will encounter truly old examples of Balinese artistic endeavour in Bali itself.This applies most particularly to those things that could be considered as household items, or as folk art. Combine the mindset with tropical weather and rapacious insects that can destroy a piece of wood almost overnight, and the end result is that we need to look for old examples of Balinese art outside Bali itself. You may find Urs Ramseyer's "The Art and Culture of Bali" to be useful; several older keris holders are shown in this book, I don't think the dates are given, but their location is given, so it might be possible to ascertain a date. #4) Last but not least, the question still remains, aside from the, Berman Museum, the Met, & Farrow Fine Art Gallery, does anyone know of a US Museum or Gallery that has holders in its collection? Cecas, your interest is apparently exclusive to keris holders extant in the US. You should be aware that I am in Australia, as are the keris holders of which I have provided photos. In response to "The Demon Frog", I have discovered in many cases the frog is a substitute for the tuber of the lotus flower. Then when a kris is placed in the stand, the shaft is to represent the lotus stalk. From there I have read that the meaning is purely symbolic with references to the male and female principles, magically united and thus forming the origin of all creation. Interpretation of iconographic motifs can be a very dangerous pursuit.Most particularly so in respect of iconographic motifs that originate in a culture and time frame that varies from our own. In respect of the beautiful Green Lady in the post of 19 May, I think that possibly she may be able to be interpreted as Bhatari Durga, rather than Rangda.

17th June 2008, 12:43 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	I don not own any keris holders, but never the less have some knowlegde to share. IMHO there are keris holders that appear to be from bali, but the hole in it is sometimes even to small to fit the smallest of javanese keris. For me that is an indication that these are made for tourist / export market. About nine years ago I bought a wooden statue of a chinese looking boy, laying on his back with his hands behind his head. With his feet he was playing with a bal. He was wearing only a jacket and no trousers. The space between his legs was the perfect sice to hold a balinese keris that would than lean aways from the boy in such a way that the boy was looking at the keris. The statue was not old, but well made. Sad enough I was not interested in keris at that time and I sold it again. I have seen more examples of chinese boys as keris holders. Any info on that from other forumites ? Good luck and best regards, Willem