Keris Holders

[cecas24]

Ahh yes, to broad a question...
I will provide a few specific questions for holders in general to start.

#1) I was told by a collector in California that Balinese Kris holders always have square bottoms-Does anyone know this to be -False?

#2) For anyone who has traveled to Bali, have you observed specific deities used only for holders ? (not those produced for tourists, but rather traditional holders)

#3) Does anyone on this site own a holder dating further back than 1920? (Could I get a peek at it?)

#4) Last but not least, the question still remains, aside from the, Berman Museum, the Met, & Farrow Fine Art Gallery, does anyone know of a US Museum or Gallery that has holders in its collection?

In response to "The Demon Frog", I have discovered in many cases the frog is a substitute for the tuber of the lotus flower. Then when a kris is placed in the stand, the shaft is to represent the lotus stalk. From there I have read that the meaning is purely symbolic with references to the male and female principles, magically united and thus forming the origin of all creation.
A Holder very similar to this is found in the Gerog Tillman Collection at the Tropenmuseum in Amsterdam.
I also found this interesting little number on ebay-

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by cecas24

...#2) For anyone who has traveled to Bali, have you observed specific deities used only for holders ? (not those produced for tourists, but rather traditional holders)

#3) Does anyone on this site own a holder dating further back than 1920? (Could I get a peek at it?)

I am not sure whether this keris holder was dating further back than 1920 or not. This figure is probably Anggada -- ape-human in Ramayana story, the only son of Resi Subali and Dewi Tara -- and not the figure of Anoman...

About Anggada. When Anggada was still infant, his father Resi Subali was dead by the arrow of Ramawijaya -- during Subali and his brother Sugriwa were quarelling to get Dewi Tara (mother of Anggada). Anggada then grew up with Sugriwa, who later married to Dewi Tara.

This (ape-human) quarrels between two brothers (Subali vs Sugriwa) in Ramayana story, were also a "power struggle" to seize the reign in Guakiskenda -- Kingdom of the apes...

[A. G. Maisey]

Willem, over the years I have had many Bali keris holders, and most of these had quite small holes to accept the keris. I used to have the same opinion that you hold, that is, that these holders were made for foreign consumption. However during the last perhaps 5 years I have obtained six Bali keris holders that were definitely old and that were obtained in circumstances that were not conducive to the theory of manufacture for foreign consumption.

These holders also had small holes, in fact the oldest holder, age judged on known history and physical appearance, had a hole that would not have accepted any keris.

I strongly suspect that most Bali keris holders have always been made with a small hole, the final size being left to the buyer to carve out, according to his own requirements.

If this is so, it would be in line with many Balinese objects made for local consumption, where the final finishing is left to the buyer, and not done by the specialist craftsman.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

I am not sure whether this keris holder was dating further back than 1920 or not. This figure is probably Anggada -- ape-human in Ramayana story, the only son of Resi Subali and Dewi Tara -- and not the figure of Anoman...

Dear Cecas,

Why not Anoman? Based on Ramayana story (wayang performance is still living in villages in Central and East Jawa Indonesia until nowadays), Anoman is an ape-human which has all white fur. While Anggada, reddish fur. And the characteristic differrence you may look at the "nail". Anoman -- like Bima too -- has a very specific "weapon-nail" named "kuku pancanaka". Only Anoman and Bima (in Jawa also called as Werkudara, or Bimasena) which have such "kuku pancanaka" in Wayang. (Pls regard the graphic picture below, Anoman with long-pointed nail and the other is Anggada)

Anoman is the son of Bathara Guru (the highest god in wayang) and Dewi Anjani... Actually Dewi Anjani is a goddess. But transformed in ape-form, when Bathara Guru fell in love with her. After bearing Anoman, the ape-woman Anjani transformed again as a goddess...

I hope this humble information won't disturb you...

[asomotif]

I strongly suspect that most Bali keris holders have always been made with a small hole, the final size being left to the buyer to carve out, according to his own requirements.

thanks again for sharing your extensive knowledge and experience !
sounds so logical.

[asomotif]

I found this little lady.
approx 35 cms high but capable of carrying a big balinese if needed.

Any suggestions on who she is ?

[Jussi M.]

[David]

A well placed, if questionably spelled, bump Jussi.
Here's my Hanuman which i never got around to posting when this thread was fresh.

[David]

Originally Posted by asomotif

I found this little lady.
approx 35 cms high but capable of carrying a big balinese if needed.

Any suggestions on who she is ?

Willem, i'm not convinced this is a lady at all. "She" is pretty flat-chested for a woman.