It certainly is very old ... but what is it ?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Rick

A spear or lance butt / shoe ?

Good hint ... indeed .
But then, being a secondary component, to be used near (and into) the ground, why the decoration ?
... Just thinking out loud .

[David]

Originally Posted by fernando

But then, being a secondary component, to be used near (and into) the ground, why the decoration ?

Why not?

[A. G. Maisey]

How about a depth gauge for a grain bin?

[Royston]

I have seen these marks before on African spear butts. Cannot remember which ones but Kenyan area.

Royston

[fernando]

Thsnk you all, Gentlemen,

Originally Posted by David

Why not?

Yes your'e right, why not ? Well, i actually wouldn't know, that is, the decoration issue alone might not be the obstacle to the lance/pike butt plausibility, but the structure "ratio" ( length versus thickness), don't make the right combination for a device which purpose is to hit or even penetrate the ground, without easily bending. In case its version was more that one to serve as a spear back support, it lacks the minimum of sharpeness .

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

How about a depth gauge for a grain bin?

Not being so sure about the haft weapon butt hipothesis, i would prefer it, in this case

Originally Posted by Royston

I have seen these marks before on African spear butts. Cannot remember which ones but Kenyan area.

I don't know enough to bet, but i don't think this thing is African; the iron thickness, the socket and blade shapes... The marks don't have to be a pinpoint; they are "universal" lines, in the due context they can be found all over ... in my igorance .
Can you remember where you saw those Kenyan marks?

Fernando

[VANDOO]

METAL BUTT SPIKES NOT ONLY SERVE THE PURPOSE OF ENABELING THE SPEAR TO BE STUCK UPRIGHT IF THE GROUND IS SOFT ENOUGH, BUT MAY ALSO AID IN THE BALANCE OF A THROWN SPEAR ?. THEY COULD ALSO BE USED AS A SORT OF TOOL IN SOME INSTANCES, THE DESIGNS ON THIS ONE ARE ALL SIMPLE LINE DESIGNS USED JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE AND ARE A VERY PRIMITAVE SORT I NOTE IT HAS A HOLE FOR ATACHMENT TO A SHAFT. THE SOCKET IS A VERY OPEN TYPE AND WITH JUST ONE NAIL TO HOLD, IT WOULD NOT MAKE A VERY GOOD WEAPON AS IT WOULD BE MORE PRONE TO COME LOSE.
NOW FOR SOME FUN I WILL PROPOSE A USE WHICH MAY NOT HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN THOUGHT OF. THE SQUARE FORM AND THE DESIGNS WOULD BE GOOD FOR SCRATCHING BETWEEN THE TOES OR REMOVING MUD WITHOUT BENDING DOWN A HANDY TOOL FOR THOSE WHO ARE ALWAYS BAREFOOT.

[Royston]

Fernando,

I am away from home at work for the next couple of weeks, when I get back I will have a sort through the " Spear Pile " I am almost certain I still have a spear with this type of marking on it. If I can find it I will post.

Royston

[katana]

Hi Fernando ,
I also believe it is a spear butt. A spiked butt had a use for 'sticking' in the ground..... and 'if needs must' your enemy.

It is unlikely this was a counterweight for a throwing spear. Throwing spears by definition are lighter (in weight) to achieve greater distance.... usually iron is 'coiled' wrapped at the butt end if weight was required.

The type of spear with a spiked butt are usually the 'held' type and often used in battle like a wooden staff (quarter staff, 'Bo' the Japanese version etc) Obviously the bladed spearhead could be used to stab, but also was used to slash / cut when used in an arcing motion. The spiked butt was useful for defence from attacks from the rear or side.

The Masai, when facing a lion, have been reported as holding the spear, butt stuck into the ground as the lion leaps to attack. In this way the animal's weight provides the penetrative force...the butt prevents the spear from 'sliding'.

Shaka, modified the traditional spear by shortening the shaft and increasing the size of the bladed spearhead. Due to the 'regimented' tactics he employed ie lines of zulu's using shields to deflect attack and expose the assailant to a stabbing attack. (A very similar tactic used by the Romans .. ...however they used the gladius, the short stabbing sword which was well suited to this technique.)
Shaka negated the spear butt because (a) having 'lines' of men in rows meant that their 'backs' were protected and (b) with the 'row' in front stabbing the enemy there was a real danger of a spear butt injurying warriors in the 'row' behind ....ouch

Your example could be ceremonial, but am sure a spear butt nethertheless.

Kind Regards David

[fernando]

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Fernando ... I also believe it is a spear butt ...
... Your example could be ceremonial, but am sure a spear butt nethertheless.

I David,
I have missed your post, which you submitted whilst i was "rehearsing" mine. You know, some times i have to go back a zillion times to "improve" my louzy english in the paragraphs i find more bizarre, so my posts take ages to be submited.
Say, would you tell this piece is European or African ... which is almost the same as telling, would this be a modern or an ancient object ?
Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Royston

... I am almost certain I still have a spear with this type of marking on it. If I can find it I will post.
Royston

Thank you so much, Royston.


Fernando

[fernando]

Thank you Barry

Originally Posted by VANDOO

METAL BUTT SPIKES NOT ONLY SERVE THE PURPOSE OF ENABELING THE SPEAR TO BE STUCK UPRIGHT IF THE GROUND IS SOFT ENOUGH, ... AT A PRIOR STAGE BUTT CONES WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE STRONG ENOUGH TO FIX THE LANCE TIGHTLY AGAINST "ANY" GROUND AND HOLD IT IN ANGLE, TO RETAIN THE CAVALRY HORSES WHEN THEY ATACKED . BUT MAY ALSO AID IN THE BALANCE OF A THROWN SPEAR ?. THEY COULD ALSO BE USED AS A SORT OF TOOL IN SOME INSTANCES, THE DESIGNS ON THIS ONE ARE ALL SIMPLE LINE DESIGNS USED JUST ABOUT EVERYWHERE AND ARE A VERY PRIMITAVE SORT. ... AS I SAID, I AM CONVINCED THIS THING IS A GOOD COUPLE CENTURIES OLD. OBVIOUSLY, IF IT WERE AN AFRICAN ITEM, ITS RUSTICITY WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION, AS BEING OF MUCH LESS AGE, BUT I WOULDN'T GO FOR AFRICA UNLESS A SIMILAR ITEM POPS UP . I NOTE IT HAS A HOLE FOR ATACHMENT TO A SHAFT. THE SOCKET IS A VERY OPEN TYPE AND WITH JUST ONE NAIL TO HOLD, IT WOULD NOT MAKE A VERY GOOD WEAPON AS IT WOULD BE MORE PRONE TO COME LOSE. ... BUT THEN, A TOOL WOULDN'T HAVE SUCH DECORATION, SPECIALLY IF IT WERE A GROUND TOOL NOW FOR SOME FUN I WILL PROPOSE A USE WHICH MAY NOT HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN THOUGHT OF. THE SQUARE FORM AND THE DESIGNS WOULD BE GOOD FOR SCRATCHING BETWEEN THE TOES OR REMOVING MUD WITHOUT BENDING DOWN A HANDY TOOL FOR THOSE WHO ARE ALWAYS BAREFOOT. ... BRILLIANT ... THAT REMINDS ME OF ELEPHANT FEET TRIMMING KITS

http://www.elephant.se/trimming_elephant_feet.php

Fernando