Old Firangi with unidentified maker's name

Jens Nordlunde · 25th March 2005, 03:15 PM

Hi Tom, you may very well be right, but then, why don't you see the fuller on the other picture? I agree that this counts for the edge too

.

Jens

Rick · 25th March 2005, 05:23 PM

Hi Jens , I think it may be a matter of lighting that makes the fuller on the other side hard to distinguish .

Ian · 25th March 2005, 05:34 PM

Jens:

There is a narrow fuller running along the back of the blade on each side. In the bottom picture above, showing the marks, the top view has the edge to the top of the picture and the bottom view has the edge to the bottom of the picture. Which means the maker's name was stamped upside down in the top view -- looks sloppy to me. I imagine this was produced by a stamping tool which was used on one side and then the blade was turned over to stamp the other side. Perhaps this speaks to a degree of mechanisation of the blade manufacturing process. Could this have been a European trade blade that was produced in some quantity for the Indian market?

BTW the type face looks very close to an English font called Caslon Old Style (dating from 1725), one of the Venetian family of fonts used by early printers. In particular, the serifs on the "T" and "L" suggest Caslon Old Style. See: http://graphicdesign.sfcc.spokane.cc...s.htm#oldstyle

Ian.

Jens Nordlunde · 25th March 2005, 09:00 PM

Ian, it could be Caslon, but it could also be a lot of other typefaces, but let’s say it is Caslon, and dig something out about this typeface. Until the beginning of the 18th century the English got their types from Holland, either by buying the types directly or by buying the matrixes and cast the types themselves. The first typecasting firm in England was started in 1720 by William Caslon, his typeface was used a lot until the empire typefaces started to take over.
If this is correct we start looking for blades after 1720-30. Unfortunately I only have one book on European military weapons, and that is one on Danish swords, but I guess the types used in Europe at that time were more or less the same. In this book there are two swords with blades like the one you show. The first one is rather early if the typeface is correct, it is a sword for the foot soldiers, model 1710, but the other one sounds more promising, a sword for the cavalry model 1780, so maybe it is from the time 1750-1850, you should start to look for a factory making swords, which used this mark – or maybe the mark was faked, like so many others, but I hope not.

Jens

Tim Simmons · 25th March 2005, 09:16 PM

I have seen today through my PC, a firangi hilted mace for sale.Oddly it has the same complete overall rather uniform dry rust with no sign of previous care or use.None of the rust seems to have bit deeply for such a supposedly old blade.Am I just a suspisious old man?Tim

Jens Nordlunde · 26th March 2005, 09:18 AM

Besides, if the type face is Caslon, this would most likely mean, that the blade is English, but there can be several other possibilities, like French, German, Italian, Spanish and most likely a few others.

Jens

tom hyle · 26th March 2005, 04:29 PM

Seems there was an English (?) cutler "T Hollister" whose tools I've seen?

25th March 2005, 05:34 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Jens: There is a narrow fuller running along the back of the blade on each side. In the bottom picture above, showing the marks, the top view has the edge to the top of the picture and the bottom view has the edge to the bottom of the picture. Which means the maker's name was stamped upside down in the top view -- looks sloppy to me. I imagine this was produced by a stamping tool which was used on one side and then the blade was turned over to stamp the other side. Perhaps this speaks to a degree of mechanisation of the blade manufacturing process. Could this have been a European trade blade that was produced in some quantity for the Indian market? BTW the type face looks very close to an English font called Caslon Old Style (dating from 1725), one of the Venetian family of fonts used by early printers. In particular, the serifs on the "T" and "L" suggest Caslon Old Style. See: http://graphicdesign.sfcc.spokane.cc...s.htm#oldstyle Ian. Last edited by Ian; 25th March 2005 at 05:51 PM.

25th March 2005, 09:16 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,875	I have seen today through my PC, a firangi hilted mace for sale.Oddly it has the same complete overall rather uniform dry rust with no sign of previous care or use.None of the rust seems to have bit deeply for such a supposedly old blade.Am I just a suspisious old man?Tim Last edited by Tim Simmons; 25th March 2005 at 09:59 PM.

25th March 2005, 03:15 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Tom, you may very well be right, but then, why don't you see the fuller on the other picture? I agree that this counts for the edge too . Jens

25th March 2005, 05:23 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Hi Jens , I think it may be a matter of lighting that makes the fuller on the other side hard to distinguish .

25th March 2005, 09:00 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ian, it could be Caslon, but it could also be a lot of other typefaces, but let’s say it is Caslon, and dig something out about this typeface. Until the beginning of the 18th century the English got their types from Holland, either by buying the types directly or by buying the matrixes and cast the types themselves. The first typecasting firm in England was started in 1720 by William Caslon, his typeface was used a lot until the empire typefaces started to take over. If this is correct we start looking for blades after 1720-30. Unfortunately I only have one book on European military weapons, and that is one on Danish swords, but I guess the types used in Europe at that time were more or less the same. In this book there are two swords with blades like the one you show. The first one is rather early if the typeface is correct, it is a sword for the foot soldiers, model 1710, but the other one sounds more promising, a sword for the cavalry model 1780, so maybe it is from the time 1750-1850, you should start to look for a factory making swords, which used this mark – or maybe the mark was faked, like so many others, but I hope not. Jens

26th March 2005, 09:18 AM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Besides, if the type face is Caslon, this would most likely mean, that the blade is English, but there can be several other possibilities, like French, German, Italian, Spanish and most likely a few others. Jens

26th March 2005, 04:29 PM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Seems there was an English (?) cutler "T Hollister" whose tools I've seen?