A Little Help Maybe ?

Kiai Carita · 23rd April 2008, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I have now received a reply from my third informant. This person is a man in his sixties who is regarded world-wide as a premier authority on the keris, and he holds a high rank within the keraton Surakarta.I consider his knowledge in this matter of Javanese language to be beyond question. Here is his answer:-

-----tulisan jawa itu berbunyi sloko, artinya perak----

------that Javanese writing has the sound "sloko", its meaning is silver----

This little exercise demonstrates very well some of the difficulties with the Javanese language.

The honocoroko alphabet , like any alphabet, is used to represent in a written form certain sounds.....

A few years ago a professor at Sebelas Maret University in Solo went on record with his opinion that within a generation or two, Javanese will be a dead language.

Pak Alan,

Your respected source is correct, but the current spelling should be slaka rather than sloko. The letters are text-book and there can be no confusion in the reading.

The spelling should be hanacaraka rather than honocoroko. The O sound in Jawa script is written using the "taling-tarung".

As for basa Jawa dying, I don't think that is so. It is evolving rather than dying, bringing in Indonesian and English words and sheding and mixing the higher levels of krama madya and krama inggil.

The process now is that the low and intimate level of ngoko (note, I can't write ngaka for this word because it is an O sound) is becoming more dominant and mistakes in krama are much more acceptable, even in formal occasions.

If krama dies it will be fine, it is a relatively new language anyway and it goes against egalitarian values of the curent age.

Nuwun sewu,

Bram

A. G. Maisey · 23rd April 2008, 06:06 AM

G'day Bram,

yes, of course you are right in respect of the spelling, as I have already indicated in my previous post, however, my friend has said:- "---the sound is sloko---", he has not said that it should be spelt that way, and the sound is "sloko", it is not "slaka".

You are Javanese, and educated, you know when "a" should be pronounced "o", but any person from outside Jawa who reads "a" will pronounce "a". I understand full well the conventions of the current spelling, but I prefer to use old spelling where that will give a more accurate rendition for the western reader, thus I spell "warangka" as "wrongko", and "ganja" as "gonjo", and so on. In fact, I have been expressly warned by several people in Solo never to use the current spelling for gonjo, and I am sure you will understand the reason why.

As to whether the letters are textbook, or not, it depends upon one's textbook. I have several that I refer to, and to my untutored eye, the letters on this pendok can be interpreted in several ways. It would appear that at least two of my Solo contacts, both men in their forties, one associated with the kraton, had some similar problems. To you, the letters are textbook, but clearly your level of knowledge in this field is far greater than the level of knowledge possessed by those to whom I referred this matter. As for myself, well, I have already said that I cannot read honocoroko--- but using my text books I can often match characters in printed works and glean a meaning.I very often cannot do the same with handwriting.

The opinion that Javanese is a dying language is not mine, it is an opinion given by an academic in this field of language. Yes, again you are correct, the Javanese language is currently in a state of flux, and there can be no doubt that Javanese as Basa Daerah will always exist, but I believe that the academic who floated the "dying language" opinion was probably talking about formal Javanese as it has been spoken in the recent past.As we are both aware, any language that does not change dies, Javanese is changing, thus it will not die but its form in a few years time will be markedly different to the form of the recent past.

I would suggest that formal Javanese is already on its death bed. I know several people who send their children to teachers out in the desas to be taught correct Javanese. Why? Because they have been unable to find competent teachers closer to home.Even a few years back when my daughter was married, she married into a slightly aristocratic family, and in preparation for life within this family she had to be taught Krama Inggil, because she was unable to speak it. That's about 15 or so years ago now. (yes, yes, I know, my spelling is inconsistent)

However, all these niceties concerning the Javanese language have little to do with what Rick initially asked for:- a translation. And he's got that.

With respect,

Alan.

23rd April 2008, 06:06 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	G'day Bram, yes, of course you are right in respect of the spelling, as I have already indicated in my previous post, however, my friend has said:- "---the sound is sloko---", he has not said that it should be spelt that way, and the sound is "sloko", it is not "slaka". You are Javanese, and educated, you know when "a" should be pronounced "o", but any person from outside Jawa who reads "a" will pronounce "a". I understand full well the conventions of the current spelling, but I prefer to use old spelling where that will give a more accurate rendition for the western reader, thus I spell "warangka" as "wrongko", and "ganja" as "gonjo", and so on. In fact, I have been expressly warned by several people in Solo never to use the current spelling for gonjo, and I am sure you will understand the reason why. As to whether the letters are textbook, or not, it depends upon one's textbook. I have several that I refer to, and to my untutored eye, the letters on this pendok can be interpreted in several ways. It would appear that at least two of my Solo contacts, both men in their forties, one associated with the kraton, had some similar problems. To you, the letters are textbook, but clearly your level of knowledge in this field is far greater than the level of knowledge possessed by those to whom I referred this matter. As for myself, well, I have already said that I cannot read honocoroko--- but using my text books I can often match characters in printed works and glean a meaning.I very often cannot do the same with handwriting. The opinion that Javanese is a dying language is not mine, it is an opinion given by an academic in this field of language. Yes, again you are correct, the Javanese language is currently in a state of flux, and there can be no doubt that Javanese as Basa Daerah will always exist, but I believe that the academic who floated the "dying language" opinion was probably talking about formal Javanese as it has been spoken in the recent past.As we are both aware, any language that does not change dies, Javanese is changing, thus it will not die but its form in a few years time will be markedly different to the form of the recent past. I would suggest that formal Javanese is already on its death bed. I know several people who send their children to teachers out in the desas to be taught correct Javanese. Why? Because they have been unable to find competent teachers closer to home.Even a few years back when my daughter was married, she married into a slightly aristocratic family, and in preparation for life within this family she had to be taught Krama Inggil, because she was unable to speak it. That's about 15 or so years ago now. (yes, yes, I know, my spelling is inconsistent) However, all these niceties concerning the Javanese language have little to do with what Rick initially asked for:- a translation. And he's got that. With respect, Alan.