Keris with strange ( to me ) blade

David · 19th April 2008, 08:51 PM

Nice keris picit. These are talismanic keris. As suggested the imprints are supposed to be done with the fingers of the maker. They are certainly less common, but not paticularly strange.

I don't think the seller's info is that far off. Pictures never tell the whole story, but this could very well be 16th or 17th century as far as i can tell. Is there a sheath? Can we see the pesi (tang)? What is the blade length?

fernando · 19th April 2008, 10:40 PM

Thank you all, for your teachings.
No David, there is no sheath

.
The blade is 8 inches ( 21 cms. ) long. The mendak (correct ?) is in copper.
I am not at home at the moment ( in Lisbon visiting my daughter ... and arms shopping

).
When i get back, i will adventure to dismount the hilt and take pictures of the pesi.
Could you meanwhile tell what region this keris come from ?
Thanks a lot.
Fernando

David · 20th April 2008, 06:18 PM

As far as the exact region i could not say, but it is probably safe to say Jawa is the place of origin. I am curious to see if the pesi has a hole, or the remains of a hole, in the end of it. The size seems right for talismanic purposes and often these keris were hung by these holes in special places of importance. It is possible that this keris was never intended to have a hilt at all and it would be no surprise then that it would also be sheathless.
Given the look of the material in the photo at least i would also not be surprised to find that this blade is at least 1700s if not older.

fernando · 20th April 2008, 10:47 PM

Hi David,
Oh boy, you sure are a master of these things, and i bow before your knowledge

The pesi actually has the remains of a hole in its end.
Further coments are so much welcome ... i'm all ears

Fernando

David · 21st April 2008, 03:03 AM

Yep, that's what i expected to see. I have a very similar keris to this so it's certainly not that i am a "master of these things" (or anything really), just going on what i have seen first hand.

fernando · 22nd April 2008, 10:04 PM

Hi David,
Allright, if you are not a "master", then sure you are a "mister" ( coach, in local soccer lexicon )

.
Resuming and according to what i have learnt here and after doing a little Net browsing, namely on glossary:
This piece has a dapur bentok ( curved ) pichit ( finger pressed ) blade.
Its dimensions and charactertistics fit into a talismanic blade.
Probable date XVII century.
Possible provenance Jawa; the hilt ( ukiran ) could be XIX century and is typical from central Jawa, right ?
You mention they are hung in special places of importance; like where ... residential places ? I have read something about hanging them in the house roof central beams; does this make sense ?
I notice that the pesi is a bit bent; this is a fault and not a deliberate situation, right ? i can easily clamp it in a padded vice and unbend it.
Is its pamor easy to tipify ?
Sorry to be such a bore.
Fernando

A. G. Maisey · 22nd April 2008, 10:13 PM

I strongly suggest that you leave the pesi strictly alone.

Do not put it into a vice, nor take to it with a hammer.

Leave as is.

19th April 2008, 10:40 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you all, for your teachings. No David, there is no sheath . The blade is 8 inches ( 21 cms. ) long. The mendak (correct ?) is in copper. I am not at home at the moment ( in Lisbon visiting my daughter ... and arms shopping ). When i get back, i will adventure to dismount the hilt and take pictures of the pesi. Could you meanwhile tell what region this keris come from ? Thanks a lot. Fernando Last edited by fernando; 20th April 2008 at 02:50 PM.

20th April 2008, 10:47 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David, Oh boy, you sure are a master of these things, and i bow before your knowledge The pesi actually has the remains of a hole in its end. Further coments are so much welcome ... i'm all ears Fernando Attached Images

19th April 2008, 08:51 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Nice keris picit. These are talismanic keris. As suggested the imprints are supposed to be done with the fingers of the maker. They are certainly less common, but not paticularly strange. I don't think the seller's info is that far off. Pictures never tell the whole story, but this could very well be 16th or 17th century as far as i can tell. Is there a sheath? Can we see the pesi (tang)? What is the blade length?

20th April 2008, 06:18 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	As far as the exact region i could not say, but it is probably safe to say Jawa is the place of origin. I am curious to see if the pesi has a hole, or the remains of a hole, in the end of it. The size seems right for talismanic purposes and often these keris were hung by these holes in special places of importance. It is possible that this keris was never intended to have a hilt at all and it would be no surprise then that it would also be sheathless. Given the look of the material in the photo at least i would also not be surprised to find that this blade is at least 1700s if not older.

21st April 2008, 03:03 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Yep, that's what i expected to see. I have a very similar keris to this so it's certainly not that i am a "master of these things" (or anything really), just going on what i have seen first hand.

22nd April 2008, 10:04 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi David, Allright, if you are not a "master", then sure you are a "mister" ( coach, in local soccer lexicon ) . Resuming and according to what i have learnt here and after doing a little Net browsing, namely on glossary: This piece has a dapur bentok ( curved ) pichit ( finger pressed ) blade. Its dimensions and charactertistics fit into a talismanic blade. Probable date XVII century. Possible provenance Jawa; the hilt ( ukiran ) could be XIX century and is typical from central Jawa, right ? You mention they are hung in special places of importance; like where ... residential places ? I have read something about hanging them in the house roof central beams; does this make sense ? I notice that the pesi is a bit bent; this is a fault and not a deliberate situation, right ? i can easily clamp it in a padded vice and unbend it. Is its pamor easy to tipify ? Sorry to be such a bore. Fernando

22nd April 2008, 10:13 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I strongly suggest that you leave the pesi strictly alone. Do not put it into a vice, nor take to it with a hammer. Leave as is.