Please, need help I.D and some code in this sword.

brekele · 18th April 2008, 01:09 PM

Now, this wallhanger or decorative object sword have again some Chinese words that come out from stomach of the handle

josh stout · 18th April 2008, 03:34 PM

Very strange. I am leaning toward the idea this is an Indonesian sword, probably made for the domestic market. The domestic market would of course include internal tourism, but also martial artists who appreciate a good blade. It would not be unusual for an Indonesian to belong to both of those categories.

The cheap Chinese made stuff rarely has that level of etching, while such is quite common on 20th c. Indonesian blades. There is also the feeling of talismanic properties to the characters and other etching which would go with an Indonesian provenance.
Josh

Mark · 18th April 2008, 04:57 PM

This similar to some early Chinese pseudo-antique swords, though a bit more elaborate. I say pseudo-antique because they don't seem to be a repro of anything specific. I have seen them curved, and with all-metal scabbards painted brown with a flower pattern.

As far as I was able to find out, these are supposed "occupation swords" from the Japanese occupation of Manchuria before and during WW2. You can see both the Japanese sun disc flag, and Manuchu-kuo rising sun flag in the blade decoration (the Manuchurian "protectorate" was called Manchu-kuo). I had one in hand once, but never dared to bend it. I am surprised that yours is so flexible. Perhaps it is the real thing, but I would say that the workmanship is very poor. But then, I don't imagine that the Japanese cared to spend much money on decent swords for a people they considered to hold a status only slightly above laboratory rats (there was extensive testing of Japanese chemical and biological weapons on Manuchurians, both with and without the test subjects' knowledge).

It is an intriguing piece, but I question its genuineness. It would be interesting to see if the characters actually make sense.

Mark · 18th April 2008, 04:59 PM

PS: I resized all of the photos in this thread to fit on the screen without scrolling sideways. I apologize that the order of some of them got shuffled, but it is hard to re-create the exact order in the attachment manager, for some reason. Hard for me, at any rate.

Mark · 18th April 2008, 05:09 PM

More info I just discovered on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo). The rising sun doesn't seem to be the Manchu-kuo flag, though I thought I had determined that when I was investigating these swords several years ago. Based on the Wikipedia entry, what I described as a flower pattern on the scabbard was, I think, the Imperial crest.

I have to back track and see where I got the idea that the second flag was Manchuria.

18th April 2008, 01:09 PM	#1
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Now, this wallhanger or decorative object sword have again some Chinese words that come out from stomach of the handle Attached Images Last edited by Mark; 18th April 2008 at 04:48 PM. Reason: resized photos

18th April 2008, 03:34 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Very strange. I am leaning toward the idea this is an Indonesian sword, probably made for the domestic market. The domestic market would of course include internal tourism, but also martial artists who appreciate a good blade. It would not be unusual for an Indonesian to belong to both of those categories. The cheap Chinese made stuff rarely has that level of etching, while such is quite common on 20th c. Indonesian blades. There is also the feeling of talismanic properties to the characters and other etching which would go with an Indonesian provenance. Josh

18th April 2008, 04:57 PM	#3
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	This similar to some early Chinese pseudo-antique swords, though a bit more elaborate. I say pseudo-antique because they don't seem to be a repro of anything specific. I have seen them curved, and with all-metal scabbards painted brown with a flower pattern. As far as I was able to find out, these are supposed "occupation swords" from the Japanese occupation of Manchuria before and during WW2. You can see both the Japanese sun disc flag, and Manuchu-kuo rising sun flag in the blade decoration (the Manuchurian "protectorate" was called Manchu-kuo). I had one in hand once, but never dared to bend it. I am surprised that yours is so flexible. Perhaps it is the real thing, but I would say that the workmanship is very poor. But then, I don't imagine that the Japanese cared to spend much money on decent swords for a people they considered to hold a status only slightly above laboratory rats (there was extensive testing of Japanese chemical and biological weapons on Manuchurians, both with and without the test subjects' knowledge). It is an intriguing piece, but I question its genuineness. It would be interesting to see if the characters actually make sense.

18th April 2008, 04:59 PM	#4
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	PS: I resized all of the photos in this thread to fit on the screen without scrolling sideways. I apologize that the order of some of them got shuffled, but it is hard to re-create the exact order in the attachment manager, for some reason. Hard for me, at any rate.

18th April 2008, 05:09 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	More info I just discovered on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo). The rising sun doesn't seem to be the Manchu-kuo flag, though I thought I had determined that when I was investigating these swords several years ago. Based on the Wikipedia entry, what I described as a flower pattern on the scabbard was, I think, the Imperial crest. I have to back track and see where I got the idea that the second flag was Manchuria.