Talismanic symbols?

Battara · 5th April 2008, 08:47 PM

Yes Jim you are correct. Cato in Moro Swords mentions that the naga is a common motif used in especially kris. In fact the blade is the naga. The tree of life motif does not occur deliberately in Moro art. In Maranao Art you do not see this motif, but snakes (nagas) and other animals like crocodiles and birds are used, but only done using okir so that the image is not clear and traditionally conform to the edict in Islam not to make graven images. In the Philippines, Indonesia, and other parts of SE Asia the naga is a power symbol that is used. That is the purpose of a talisman - to empower the user/owner, and in the Philippines the naga and crocodile are such symbols and used on weaponry and cloth all over the southern Philippines (also see Textiles of the Southern Philippines). In the north on Luzon the imagery changes with the frog and lizard being talismans along with the naga (again a power symbol). I would have too look at my library to get the exact pages and other texts I am basing this on.

Jim McDougall · 5th April 2008, 11:38 PM

Hi Jose,
Thank you so much for responding to my comments. These weapons are outside my regular fields of study, so I appreciate your explanation and detail on the symbolism and motif. The concepts seem very similar to those on the talismanic blades of Europe, at least in degree. I know your knowledge on these weapons is extensive, and while references are always nice for the general reading on the thread, they are not necessary for me to know your comments are right on target.

All very best regards,
Jim

Battara · 6th April 2008, 08:47 PM

Jim you have a good point (like the one on my head

) and that is that talismans and talismanic marks are architypal (to use a Jungian term) and therefore many cultures across the planet use or have used them in some form or fashion. Often they are used to ward off not just misfortune or empower the ower, but for some (Indonesia/Malaysia/Philippines) the image, even symbolic, is enough to scare off (hopefully) evil spirits, etc. Another good example is in Bali the use of demon hilt figures to scare off other demons.

Gavin Nugent · 7th April 2008, 06:28 AM

I just received a 1st copy of Eduard Wagner's book Cut and Thrust Weapons. What a huge volume, I didn't think I'd get it home on the tank of the bike. Whilst I am sitting here looking through it, I came across a chapter on this very subject. I don't think I will be able to manipulate my scanner to fit these pages but for those who have a copy on the shelf pages 67-77 are very interesting.

regards

Gav

7th April 2008, 06:28 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Wagner I just received a 1st copy of Eduard Wagner's book Cut and Thrust Weapons. What a huge volume, I didn't think I'd get it home on the tank of the bike. Whilst I am sitting here looking through it, I came across a chapter on this very subject. I don't think I will be able to manipulate my scanner to fit these pages but for those who have a copy on the shelf pages 67-77 are very interesting. regards Gav

5th April 2008, 08:47 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Yes Jim you are correct. Cato in Moro Swords mentions that the naga is a common motif used in especially kris. In fact the blade is the naga. The tree of life motif does not occur deliberately in Moro art. In Maranao Art you do not see this motif, but snakes (nagas) and other animals like crocodiles and birds are used, but only done using okir so that the image is not clear and traditionally conform to the edict in Islam not to make graven images. In the Philippines, Indonesia, and other parts of SE Asia the naga is a power symbol that is used. That is the purpose of a talisman - to empower the user/owner, and in the Philippines the naga and crocodile are such symbols and used on weaponry and cloth all over the southern Philippines (also see Textiles of the Southern Philippines). In the north on Luzon the imagery changes with the frog and lizard being talismans along with the naga (again a power symbol). I would have too look at my library to get the exact pages and other texts I am basing this on.

5th April 2008, 11:38 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Jose, Thank you so much for responding to my comments. These weapons are outside my regular fields of study, so I appreciate your explanation and detail on the symbolism and motif. The concepts seem very similar to those on the talismanic blades of Europe, at least in degree. I know your knowledge on these weapons is extensive, and while references are always nice for the general reading on the thread, they are not necessary for me to know your comments are right on target. All very best regards, Jim

6th April 2008, 08:47 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Jim you have a good point (like the one on my head ) and that is that talismans and talismanic marks are architypal (to use a Jungian term) and therefore many cultures across the planet use or have used them in some form or fashion. Often they are used to ward off not just misfortune or empower the ower, but for some (Indonesia/Malaysia/Philippines) the image, even symbolic, is enough to scare off (hopefully) evil spirits, etc. Another good example is in Bali the use of demon hilt figures to scare off other demons.