Please help on bronze axes

katana · 4th April 2008, 05:41 PM

Hi Fernando

,
interesting axe heads ....these particular heads are called Palstave axes, the first one seems to have a 'hammer head' at one end.... on which I can find no info. These could be older than you think....many bronze age axe heads were never used but placed as 'grave goods' for the deceased ...to use in the after life

See this ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Kind Regards David

Battara · 4th April 2008, 06:00 PM

Katana your picture is so helpful.......

kronckew · 5th April 2008, 07:50 AM

the top one seems to have the sprue still attached from the original pouring of the mold. it would have to be cut off to enable the bent stave to be attached.

katana · 5th April 2008, 12:17 PM

Hi Kronckew

,
I did wonder about the top one ...I did consider the hammerhead to be the sprue, but... I have not found another example with two cast fixing loops. It suggests to me that this would have been fixed to a shaft in a more complex way and the only reason I could see was that the 'hammerhead' prevented 'normal' attachment to a haft.

Kind Regards David

kronckew · 5th April 2008, 01:40 PM

the other possibility is that it is to be used as a chisel rather than a palstave axe.

this one (right) is so described at LibraryIreland

looks kinda big for that tho.

my favourite bronze axe was this style luristan axe (pic from internet)

the axe haft i've drawn in to show how it was mounted with the point in the direction of swing and the edge trailing, must have been good for penetrating any intervening armour. almost bought a replica a few yrs. back. kick myself for not having done so.

ariel · 5th April 2008, 03:45 PM

Several times I looked at yet another "Luristani" bronze dagger/sword and every time walked away.
I just do not know how to distinguish the real thing from forgery.
Based on the stuff coming from China, the technologies of casting and aging must be pretty simple and well worked-out and it must be a cheap mass-production enterprise.
Are there any criteria whereby one can reliably identify forgery, other than the Chinese seller, of course ?

kronckew · 5th April 2008, 06:02 PM

i seem to recall someone here saying the chinese have been making forgeries for centuries. i've seen bronze spearheads made over here in the UK from castings of original finds and artificially patenated and aged, i do not think i'd buy one without some serious documentation and provenance. (the luristan replica i coveted was a brand shiny new functional one, not made from a cast but made as if it were a new weapon for a re-enactor). i also hear that the roman rings found in profusion on ebay are also mostly made recently in the balkans. bronze is a tough corrosion resistant metal well suited to lasting millenia, it would take an analysis of the alloy to prove it was likely to be real as opposed to a modern phosphor bronze from a scrapped ship's prop.

4th April 2008, 05:41 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Fernando , interesting axe heads ....these particular heads are called Palstave axes, the first one seems to have a 'hammer head' at one end.... on which I can find no info. These could be older than you think....many bronze age axe heads were never used but placed as 'grave goods' for the deceased ...to use in the after life See this .... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770 Kind Regards David Attached Images

4th April 2008, 06:00 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Katana your picture is so helpful.......

5th April 2008, 07:50 AM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	the top one seems to have the sprue still attached from the original pouring of the mold. it would have to be cut off to enable the bent stave to be attached.

5th April 2008, 12:17 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Kronckew , I did wonder about the top one ...I did consider the hammerhead to be the sprue, but... I have not found another example with two cast fixing loops. It suggests to me that this would have been fixed to a shaft in a more complex way and the only reason I could see was that the 'hammerhead' prevented 'normal' attachment to a haft. Kind Regards David

5th April 2008, 01:40 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	the other possibility is that it is to be used as a chisel rather than a palstave axe. this one (right) is so described at LibraryIreland looks kinda big for that tho. my favourite bronze axe was this style luristan axe (pic from internet) the axe haft i've drawn in to show how it was mounted with the point in the direction of swing and the edge trailing, must have been good for penetrating any intervening armour. almost bought a replica a few yrs. back. kick myself for not having done so.

5th April 2008, 03:45 PM	#6
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Several times I looked at yet another "Luristani" bronze dagger/sword and every time walked away. I just do not know how to distinguish the real thing from forgery. Based on the stuff coming from China, the technologies of casting and aging must be pretty simple and well worked-out and it must be a cheap mass-production enterprise. Are there any criteria whereby one can reliably identify forgery, other than the Chinese seller, of course ?

5th April 2008, 06:02 PM	#7
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	i seem to recall someone here saying the chinese have been making forgeries for centuries. i've seen bronze spearheads made over here in the UK from castings of original finds and artificially patenated and aged, i do not think i'd buy one without some serious documentation and provenance. (the luristan replica i coveted was a brand shiny new functional one, not made from a cast but made as if it were a new weapon for a re-enactor). i also hear that the roman rings found in profusion on ebay are also mostly made recently in the balkans. bronze is a tough corrosion resistant metal well suited to lasting millenia, it would take an analysis of the alloy to prove it was likely to be real as opposed to a modern phosphor bronze from a scrapped ship's prop.