Pirate swords and weapons 2

[M ELEY]

013- Here is a nice comparison of a New Spain bilbo (top) vs a traditional bilbo already discussed.
The New Spain bilbo (top) I thought was an interesting piece obviously assembled from availible materials in the New World. Blade consists of one of the numerous earlier Spanish blades (markings so worn so as to be unreadible, but I do see a Maltese cross??) cut down to fit this piece. The bilobate cup similar to the traditional bilbo with decorations (see below), the plain wood hilt/wire wrap and pommel of the period (ca 1780-1830). Note the crude bars of the guard brazed into a unique shape. This piece, I believe, has cross appeal as not only an antique, but also as a form of folk art.

[M ELEY]

011- Detail of New Spain bilbo guard...

[M ELEY]

010- The whole hilt of the New Spain bilbo...

[M ELEY]

009- Two naval dirks. These types of dirks were carried by midshipmen in both the European and American navies from approximately 1750-1880's. Midshipmen could be as young as 8 years old(!!) up to adulthood. Many of these were signs of rank/decorative, but others were amde for the business of defending oneself if your ship was boarded or if you were storming another's ship. Lord Nelson himself used to use one in battle as a yound cadet.
Top dirk either French or American copying the French style. Plain cruciform guard, fluted black horn grip with flat guilded pommel cap. The blade is slightly edged, but has a wickedly sharp point. Wouldn't want to get gigged with this thing! Circa 1805-20's?
Bottom pic one of the classic patterns of British naval dirks seen (no specific patterns on these, but many copied a particular pattern). Fluted square ivory grip, up and down quillons and "pillow-form" pommel all guilded. Blade has a full cutting edge and false edge for half it's length.

[M ELEY]

007- More detail of the two naval dirks...

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

007- More detail of the two naval dirks...

Pics added

[Jim McDougall]

Mark, this just keeps getting gooder and gooder!!!
Seriously, this is undoubtedly the most breathtaking array of potentially pirate associated weapons I have seen.......and much of this is like the pages of Brinckerhoff & Chamberlain come to life!
Thank you so much for sharing these.
I'm off to the books
All the best,
Jim

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

009- Two naval dirks. These types of dirks were carried by midshipmen in both the European and American navies from approximately 1750-1880's. Midshipmen could be as young as 8 years old(!!) up to adulthood. Many of these were signs of rank/decorative, but others were amde for the business of defending oneself if your ship was boarded or if you were storming another's ship. Lord Nelson himself used to use one in battle as a yound cadet.
Top dirk either French or American copying the French style. Plain cruciform guard, fluted black horn grip with flat guilded pommel cap. The blade is slightly edged, but has a wickedly sharp point. Wouldn't want to get gigged with this thing! Circa 1805-20's?
Bottom pic one of the classic patterns of British naval dirks seen (no specific patterns on these, but many copied a particular pattern). Fluted square ivory grip, up and down quillons and "pillow-form" pommel all guilded. Blade has a full cutting edge and false edge for half it's length.

Pics added

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

010- The whole hilt of the New Spain bilbo...

Pics added

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

011- Detail of New Spain bilbo guard...

Pics added

[RSWORD]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

013- Here is a nice comparison of a New Spain bilbo (top) vs a traditional bilbo already discussed.
The New Spain bilbo (top) I thought was an interesting piece obviously assembled from availible materials in the New World. Blade consists of one of the numerous earlier Spanish blades (markings so worn so as to be unreadible, but I do see a Maltese cross??) cut down to fit this piece. The bilobate cup similar to the traditional bilbo with decorations (see below), the plain wood hilt/wire wrap and pommel of the period (ca 1780-1830). Note the crude bars of the guard brazed into a unique shape. This piece, I believe, has cross appeal as not only an antique, but also as a form of folk art.

Pics added

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

013- Here is a nice comparison of a New Spain bilbo (top) vs a traditional bilbo already discussed.
The New Spain bilbo (top) I thought was an interesting piece obviously assembled from availible materials in the New World. Blade consists of one of the numerous earlier Spanish blades (markings so worn so as to be unreadible, but I do see a Maltese cross??) cut down to fit this piece. The bilobate cup similar to the traditional bilbo with decorations (see below), the plain wood hilt/wire wrap and pommel of the period (ca 1780-1830). Note the crude bars of the guard brazed into a unique shape. This piece, I believe, has cross appeal as not only an antique, but also as a form of folk art.

I am enjoying this thread greatly and there is a wonderful array of pirate/privateer and naval weapons displayed, a most interesting collection.
I have attached an image you displayed earlier and would like to add a few facts about the bottom sword that has been discussed as it is one of my all time favorites apart from the later and rarer 1796 pattern.
The sword you originally posted is a 1728 pattern spanish cavalry sword, look up Juan José Pérez works on this subject matter, the following is a quote from his works and the second image is an peroid engraving he displays in his works.

"In 1728 a regulation sword patttern for cavalry troopers appears for the first time in Spain, anticipating itself this way to many other countries of its surroundings. This pattern, defined by Royal Ordenance of July 12th of that year, presents a double-edged straight blade (as all Spanish cavalry swords of 18th cent.), having a double-shell iron hilt with knuckle-bow and curved quillons, as a period engraving shows along with the scabbard, made in leather-covered wood. Length of blade 940 mm, width 36 mm,
thickness 6 mm."

Keep up the great work guys, I will continue to view with great interest.

regards

Gav

PS if you look closely you will see what appears to be the Maltese cross you mention that is on the top sword.

[M ELEY]

I'm glad you enjoyed the thread and thanks for the further information, Gav. I was unaware of Perez' work and I will keep an eye out for it. I also love the general patterning of this sword, especially the bilobate hilt like those found on smallswords.
Thanks for pointing out the Maltese cross shape. Interesting that this device is used on many Spanish pieces. The Knights of Malta was still around during this period, but I don't know what connection, if any, they had with Spain?

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mark,
The outstanding works on Spanish swords by Juan Perez can be found linked on Lee Jones article on the espada ancha located here on this site.
In looking at the bilobate guards on these military swords, I often have thought (in my typical free association way of the Spanish shields of overlapping oval form termed 'adarga' and wondered if there was any association to the guards.

The Maltese (or St.Johns) cross is very much associated with Spanish religious and military symbolism, having to do with the military orders of the Knights of Alcantara and the Knights of Calatrava. Apparantly these orders adopted the red cross on white mantle from the Cistercians. References to Columbus in referring to the red crosses painted on the sails of his ships have varying perspective on the symbolic application. His association with Prince Henry of Portugal who was a Grand Master of the Knights of Christ, and whose symbolism of the red 'maltese' cross offers one possibility. However another reference is more general in stating that King Ferdinand of Castile-Aragon, for whom Columbus sailed, flew the 'Maltese christian cross on his sails'. Without going further with the complexities of the cross known commonly as 'Maltese' and its very widespread use symbolically, it does seem that it may have some amuletic or talismanic value in markings on weapons.

The application of the crosses on the sails may have been done in the same apotropaic sense that merchants marks with variations of crosses and 'anchors' were used to mark cargo and eventually weapons to protect them at sea.

Again, I cannot thank you enough for sharing these fantastic weapons here! This is definitely a thread that I know I'll be visiting often just to see them.

All very best regards,
Jim

[M ELEY]

Wow! I hadn't realized that there were other branches of Knights who used similar symbols as the Knights of St John. Very interesting tie-in. I've wondered about the so-called Maltese Cross for quite some time and that brings clarity. Thanks, Jim, your knowledge on the subject seems extensive! (and this with half your library tucked away!). On a totally unrelated subject (well, perhaps not TOTALLY), I read with fascination about the end of the Knights due to Napoleon's trickery. It was said that all of the treasures of the knights, spanning back to the earliest Crusade with the Templars, was placed on the flagship L'Orient. Shortly thereafter, the British fleet arrived and sent the flaming ship to her doom. Now there's a great spin on a conspiracy theory ala Ron Brown if you ask me. What secrets and knowledge did the Maltese Knights have, like their Templar brethren, that was lost that day? Hey, I better get started writing this book!

[Marc]

Well, I suppose you mean an eight-point cross, symbol of the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem, Kinights Hospitaliers or Knights of Malta :

They had a close relationship with the various Iberian Kingdoms and also with the Spanish Monarchy later on, it wouldn't be strange to find this symbol in a Spanish blade. But the Spanish Military Orders are different orders (founded in different places, by different people and for different reasons) and have different symbology, I'm afraid. The most important ones that were still around at the 18th. c. (and still are, nowadays) are the following ones:

Order of Santiago:


Order of Calatrava:



Order of Alcántara:


and Order of Montesa:



There's some more, but those are the most usual.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mark,
There is so much complexity in trying to clearly understand these early military orders and religious orders that evolved prior to and during the crusades, which were of course complex in understanding themselves. I am not sure that historians even agree specifically on exactly how many crusades or actual campaigns there were over the two hundred year + period.I must admit that I was struggling through "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" a full decade before Dan Brown wrote the "DaVinci Code", and found some relief in enjoying the movie!

Marc, thank you for showing the variations in the military orders and the forms and color coding of the crosses that have evolved in thier symbolism. It really is interesting that the color coding has become so key, as well as the fluerets added on the ends of the cross branches on some, and there is of course numeric symbolism in the eight point crosses.

It would be interesting to know just what the crosses worn on the knights' mantles really looked like, and for that matter, the crosses on the sails of Columbus' ships. While we naturally have no contemporary illustrations, and the artistic license of the art created much later and based loosely on narratives and the imagination of the artist, there is really no way to know for sure.
The reference that noted that Ferdinand's ships carried the red Christian cross on thier sails, may have meant that entirely metaphorically, suggesting that the expeditions were for the glory of the Church rather than the search for gold. The red crosses always depicted on the mantles of the crusaders seem to suggest similar symbolism. Whatever the case, it does seem unlikely that any cross or such device applied in those times would have incorporated the artistic elements of these later graphic interpretations with the key symbolisms imbued in the elements.

The simple 'maltese' cross that was stamped or carved into metalwork such as seen on blades would not have the benefit of color nor the intricacies seen in variations, so the specifics typically would remain assumed. The symbolism however would seem to allude to these orders and further to the apotropaic properties often applied in blade markings of the period.

Thanks very much Mark for the kind words! I really do wish I did have extensive knowledge on this subject, and my copy of "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" is so tattered and dogeared from all the years I've tried to understand it, my wife groans every time we take a flight and there I am with it!

Marc, its really great to have you come in on the thread, and I really appreciate you including those crosses and the various orders. The symbolism in these denote the fantastic and colorful history of Spain and Portugal and thier monumental importance in world history.

All very best regards,
Jim