Pirate swords and weapons 2

Jim McDougall · 26th March 2008, 04:38 PM

Mark, these are incredible groupings of weapons! and exactly what I was hoping for when I first posted the pirate weapons thread (and thank you Rick for posting these!).
You have clearly done meticulous research on these, and the identifications are great, clearly captioning each item.

In 023, the second sword down (between the two Spanish swords) with the striated shellguard, I have discovered recently is of a form that is apparantly regarded as Brazilian and termed espada ancha. These swords with the interesting hilt that has nocked grip similar to Moroccan nimchas, and the heavy shell guard, seem to date to end of 18th c. to middle of the 19th.

While the 'Golden Age' of piracy actually ended about 1718, this much romanticized period by no means suggests that piracy did not exist before it began, nor certainly when it 'ended'. The Spanish trade routes throughout the Caribbean, Florida, Cuba, Mexico and South America extended to Spanish Morocco as well. There were of course pirates that sailed from Brazilian regions, and this activity prevailed from c.1800 well into the 19th c.
The third sword down (just below the Brazilian espada ancha) is of course the Spanish dragoon type sword commonly termed the 'bilbo' (presumably from the bilobate guard, however the term is a collectors term which remains speculative). It is significant to note here that it seems many of these seem to have provenanced from Cuba and eastern Mexican port regions.

The next sword, with eagle hilt, is another I recall our discussions on. The blade is one of the well known trade blades usually associated with Spanish colonial swords of late 18th c.These often carry the 'Spanish Motto' and now are believed to have been Solingen made for export from c.1750-1810.

While I am somewhat unfamiliar with dirks, in the two shown in the photo, I think it is significant to note that the three other swords seem to be well placed as examples of the types of swords that would have potentially been in use in the period and regions of later piracy on the "Spanish Main" from the opening of the 19th century and well on later.

Fantastic displays!!!

Thank you so much for sharing these. Being able to look at these adds whole new dimension to reading on pirates, and enjoying these great adventures,

All the very best,
Jim

M ELEY · 27th March 2008, 02:38 AM

Thanks so much, Jim! It means alot to have your input. The attribution to an espada is fascinating, as I have ended up with a grouping of these swords quite by but now they fit nicely in the pirate/privateer theme. I am surprised at your memory of the eagle hilt (actually, it's a primative lion head) and you are exactly right in that it does have the Spanish motto and is marked Solingen. There are a couple more pics of these swords in 023 coming up as well as a few other sundry pieces.

018- More detail of the 3 sabers from the first photo. The middle one already discussed as the M1799. The bottom piece a Spanish broadsword, ca.1790-1820. The top one a true AMerican piece, circa 1780-1810, with typical pommel, ivory/bone grip, European blade with splays of arms, etc. At one time, the guard apparently damaged and replaced with a simple crosspiece of walnut.

M ELEY · 27th March 2008, 02:39 AM

017- A closeup of the above grouping...

M ELEY · 27th March 2008, 02:40 AM

016- A closeup of the cast lionhead hilt...

RSWORD · 27th March 2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

016- A closeup of the cast lionhead hilt...

Pics added

M ELEY · 28th March 2008, 03:34 AM

015- Top pic is of a "New Spain" colonial sword/cutlass, ca.1800-20 period with swelled horn grip and 3 branched guard piened to cup guard. This guard always reminds me of later Mexican metal work spurs. According to "Spanish Swords in Colonial America", these types probably more Central/South American. There was a resurgence of pirate activity in the 1810-30 time period in the Caribbean, particularly with Cuban pirates. Likewise, the logwood cutters of Compeche and Hondurus were always quick to take up piracy when their work dropped off or was halted.
Middle is the head of a naval pike, probably British, ca 1810.
Bottom pic is the now-identified Brazilian espada (Thanks, Jim!!!) previously discussed.

M ELEY · 28th March 2008, 03:45 AM

013- Here is a nice comparison of a New Spain bilbo (top) vs a traditional bilbo already discussed.
The New Spain bilbo (top) I thought was an interesting piece obviously assembled from availible materials in the New World. Blade consists of one of the numerous earlier Spanish blades (markings so worn so as to be unreadible, but I do see a Maltese cross??) cut down to fit this piece. The bilobate cup similar to the traditional bilbo with decorations (see below), the plain wood hilt/wire wrap and pommel of the period (ca 1780-1830). Note the crude bars of the guard brazed into a unique shape. This piece, I believe, has cross appeal as not only an antique, but also as a form of folk art.

RSWORD · 28th March 2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

015- Top pic is of a "New Spain" colonial sword/cutlass, ca.1800-20 period with swelled horn grip and 3 branched guard piened to cup guard. This guard always reminds me of later Mexican metal work spurs. According to "Spanish Swords in Colonial America", these types probably more Central/South American. There was a resurgence of pirate activity in the 1810-30 time period in the Caribbean, particularly with Cuban pirates. Likewise, the logwood cutters of Compeche and Hondurus were always quick to take up piracy when their work dropped off or was halted.
Middle is the head of a naval pike, probably British, ca 1810.
Bottom pic is the now-identified Brazilian espada (Thanks, Jim!!!) previously discussed.

Pics added

RSWORD · 27th March 2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

017- A closeup of the above grouping...

Pics added

RSWORD · 27th March 2008, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Thanks so much, Jim! It means alot to have your input. The attribution to an espada is fascinating, as I have ended up with a grouping of these swords quite by but now they fit nicely in the pirate/privateer theme. I am surprised at your memory of the eagle hilt (actually, it's a primative lion head) and you are exactly right in that it does have the Spanish motto and is marked Solingen. There are a couple more pics of these swords in 023 coming up as well as a few other sundry pieces.

018- More detail of the 3 sabers from the first photo. The middle one already discussed as the M1799. The bottom piece a Spanish broadsword, ca.1790-1820. The top one a true AMerican piece, circa 1780-1810, with typical pommel, ivory/bone grip, European blade with splays of arms, etc. At one time, the guard apparently damaged and replaced with a simple crosspiece of walnut.

Pics added

26th March 2008, 04:38 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Mark, these are incredible groupings of weapons! and exactly what I was hoping for when I first posted the pirate weapons thread (and thank you Rick for posting these!). You have clearly done meticulous research on these, and the identifications are great, clearly captioning each item. In 023, the second sword down (between the two Spanish swords) with the striated shellguard, I have discovered recently is of a form that is apparantly regarded as Brazilian and termed espada ancha. These swords with the interesting hilt that has nocked grip similar to Moroccan nimchas, and the heavy shell guard, seem to date to end of 18th c. to middle of the 19th. While the 'Golden Age' of piracy actually ended about 1718, this much romanticized period by no means suggests that piracy did not exist before it began, nor certainly when it 'ended'. The Spanish trade routes throughout the Caribbean, Florida, Cuba, Mexico and South America extended to Spanish Morocco as well. There were of course pirates that sailed from Brazilian regions, and this activity prevailed from c.1800 well into the 19th c. The third sword down (just below the Brazilian espada ancha) is of course the Spanish dragoon type sword commonly termed the 'bilbo' (presumably from the bilobate guard, however the term is a collectors term which remains speculative). It is significant to note here that it seems many of these seem to have provenanced from Cuba and eastern Mexican port regions. The next sword, with eagle hilt, is another I recall our discussions on. The blade is one of the well known trade blades usually associated with Spanish colonial swords of late 18th c.These often carry the 'Spanish Motto' and now are believed to have been Solingen made for export from c.1750-1810. While I am somewhat unfamiliar with dirks, in the two shown in the photo, I think it is significant to note that the three other swords seem to be well placed as examples of the types of swords that would have potentially been in use in the period and regions of later piracy on the "Spanish Main" from the opening of the 19th century and well on later. Fantastic displays!!! Thank you so much for sharing these. Being able to look at these adds whole new dimension to reading on pirates, and enjoying these great adventures, All the very best, Jim

27th March 2008, 02:38 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	Thanks so much, Jim! It means alot to have your input. The attribution to an espada is fascinating, as I have ended up with a grouping of these swords quite by but now they fit nicely in the pirate/privateer theme. I am surprised at your memory of the eagle hilt (actually, it's a primative lion head) and you are exactly right in that it does have the Spanish motto and is marked Solingen. There are a couple more pics of these swords in 023 coming up as well as a few other sundry pieces. 018- More detail of the 3 sabers from the first photo. The middle one already discussed as the M1799. The bottom piece a Spanish broadsword, ca.1790-1820. The top one a true AMerican piece, circa 1780-1810, with typical pommel, ivory/bone grip, European blade with splays of arms, etc. At one time, the guard apparently damaged and replaced with a simple crosspiece of walnut.

27th March 2008, 02:39 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	017- A closeup of the above grouping...

27th March 2008, 02:40 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	016- A closeup of the cast lionhead hilt...

28th March 2008, 03:34 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	015- Top pic is of a "New Spain" colonial sword/cutlass, ca.1800-20 period with swelled horn grip and 3 branched guard piened to cup guard. This guard always reminds me of later Mexican metal work spurs. According to "Spanish Swords in Colonial America", these types probably more Central/South American. There was a resurgence of pirate activity in the 1810-30 time period in the Caribbean, particularly with Cuban pirates. Likewise, the logwood cutters of Compeche and Hondurus were always quick to take up piracy when their work dropped off or was halted. Middle is the head of a naval pike, probably British, ca 1810. Bottom pic is the now-identified Brazilian espada (Thanks, Jim!!!) previously discussed.

28th March 2008, 03:45 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	013- Here is a nice comparison of a New Spain bilbo (top) vs a traditional bilbo already discussed. The New Spain bilbo (top) I thought was an interesting piece obviously assembled from availible materials in the New World. Blade consists of one of the numerous earlier Spanish blades (markings so worn so as to be unreadible, but I do see a Maltese cross??) cut down to fit this piece. The bilobate cup similar to the traditional bilbo with decorations (see below), the plain wood hilt/wire wrap and pommel of the period (ca 1780-1830). Note the crude bars of the guard brazed into a unique shape. This piece, I believe, has cross appeal as not only an antique, but also as a form of folk art.